Big Brother 17: Week 10 Veto Ceremony Plans

Later today in the Big Brother 17 house the remaining eight Houseguests will settle in for the Power of Veto Ceremony where the winner will have to make a choice and force Vanessa, the current HoH, to make one of her own.

Meg & Vanessa talk game on Big Brother 17
Meg & Vanessa talk game on Big Brother 17 – Source: CBS All Access

We’ve been listening to discussions since this weekend when the Power of Veto was won and we knew it was obviously going to be used. The big question then became: who will be going up on the Block as the renom.

While the Austwins immediately saw James’s Veto win as a second chance at getting John on the Block Vanessa actually has another plan for him. John needs to stick around to help her with that pesky “strong fortress” so he isn’t going anywhere near the Block.

Instead Vanessa told the Austwins that she doesn’t trust them enough to not be tempted to vote out John over Meg. With that in mind Vanessa is sticking to her plan to put Julia on the Block making the final noms of the week: Meg Maley and Julia Nolan.

Overnight Meg made a pitch to Vanessa that she’d be willing to lay down and not try to win HoH then be willing to go up as a pawn even if James wins HoH. Meg pleaded that it was just too soon in the Big Brother 17 season for her to go. Reminder: season finale is in three and a half weeks. Vanessa gave her a lot of smiles and nods, but it won’t change things. If anything Vanessa will just use this opportunity to gather for more info and Meg will still go up on the Block.

Gotta say that’s not a very exciting pair of nominations considering there’s not an HoH or PoV win between them, but I guess that’s how players like that end up in the F3. Of course I think Vanessa would love to get to the end against Julia as her ally while James would love to keep Meg, his equivalent of Julia, in the game too.

I can’t harp on it enough though that this is a big missed opportunity for Vanessa. If she would instead reach the clearing and see that putting Liz on the Block is infinitely better for her own chances of getting to the end we could have a much more interesting week. However, with the justification of saying John would be too tempting a target to put up over Julia then it’d now be hard for her to not accept the same criticism of suggesting Liz going up on the Block.

But come on Vanessa, it’s right there! Liz goes up. You say it’s because neither Austin nor Julia would ever dare betray her and they wouldn’t. You don’t vote against her, Austin doesn’t vote against her, and she could still go to Jury. With her out of the way you’d have Austin to yourself and you’d have Julia to yourself. But no, you’d prefer to march on to the final three weeks with the Austwins securely positioned in their “fortress” and you banking on John winning HoH to put them up. Grr.

Anyway, that won’t happen. Today at the Veto Ceremony James will use the PoV on himself and Julia will be named as the renom. Votes will hold and Grandma Meg will be sent to the retirement home as the F7 HGs head in to a Double Eviction on Thursday night.

Check back for the official spoilers around early afternoon when the Veto Ceremony is typically held and we can have more discussions then on what will happen next.

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286 Comments

  1. What has me shaking my head is that Vanessa stated that Meg and James were acting like an old married couple willing to throw themselves on the sword for each other and that needs to be broken up. Come on Vanessa, while that’s true, they are but two, with Austin, Liz and Julia being three. Go for the bigger threat, your layers of protection are not as strong as you think they are. Liz has shown she can win things and well, if she wins HOH you can bet your butt that she will target John. Vanessa would be way smarter going after the python than the little garter snake. Cut the Python’s head off (Liz) then go after the garter’s head (James).

    • I agre Aislinn. That statement about James and Meg being like an old married couple blew my mind. Liz and Austin are having sex and made their relationship official, and she doesn’t think they should be broken up……just stupid.

    • I thought pretty much the same thing when she said that about James and Meg: look behind you, Vanessa, see the “fortress” of three behind you? It’s not in your best interest to break them up? All of a sudden there’s no logic to any decisions being made anymore.

    • Ya, it’s funny but keeping as 3 person alliance in the house keeps a bigger target there and the target off her a little more. But someone needs to hit them eventually or it wont matter if Vanessa(or anyone) would have the votes if they aren’t in the F2.

    • At the same time James can win as well and taking him out would be smart. If Julia wins HOH in the double she has to take John out.

    • Vanessa better get one of the “3 blind mice” out bc she will not win in final four. I really hope she is gone DE.

  2. Vanessa doesn’t fully trust the other side so she wants to keep the Three morons for votes in her favor and hoping then at the end she wins HOH and picks one of them to go with her. That’s a lot of if’s…

    • Ha, ha… trust the other side, she doesn’t trust another, she has PPR (paranoid personality disorder).

      Here’s what she not thinking about, the votes don’t mean anything if 2 of them are sitting in the F2 positions and her butt is in the Jury House. She’ll be voting who gets F1.

  3. It will be awesome because austin and liz finally have their reason to put her up…austin and liz final two will be great

    • Yup, it will be interesting. Venassa has want to always justifuy her reasoning for things, and just gave them there for putting her up.

      • It was funny last night when Jackie told the DR how she KNEW Vanessa would go on the chopping block if any of the jurors return. (We understand Jmac’s decision regardless.)
        Shelli’s DR she said she’d gun for James for breaking up her and Clay.
        James obv will never get Shelli’s vote, even against Meg probably. Ha ha. Bitter juror #1.

      • I don’t care who would win out of James or John (ok I do like James a little more) it’s just that I don’t like anyone else in the house. Vanessa is a hot whiney mess, the twins are mean spirited, Meg is cool (but a goner), Austin creeps me out and Steve..well he’s not that bad either he’s grown on me, but still out of all the evils there James and John are the least.

      • I’m with you. I favor JMac more but would not mind in the least if James pull it off. Like both of them. I would just love to seeing a returning juror win the game. Would be the first time.

  4. Matthew I’m going to re-post a response that I just made in a previous thread here, because I think it will garner more discussion being that this thread is new.

    I think you are completely off base with the idea that Vanessa should put up Liz. Here’s my very long explanation that nominating Liz is not in Vanessa’s best interests.

    First, to point to Dan as an example of what to do and then say that things went disastrously for Dan should be your first clue that this “plan” will not work out well for Vanessa either. Both are/were GIANT betrayals.

    It has already been established by Vanessa and Austin that putting up Liz or Austin would be too risky. The Austwins would turn on Vanessa even if Liz would not be evicted. Strike One!

    IF Liz were evicted and Julia and Austin were not out for revenge against Vanessa (highly, highly unlikely by the way), for the rest of the house guests the great white whale (the Austwins) will have been defeated. Guess who is the NEW great white whale?

    Vanessa!

    For any of you who think that this new “super alliance” of Vanessa, Steve and JMac is anything more than an alliance of convenience to target the Austwins, I have some ocean front property in Arizona I’d like to sell you. Strike Two!

    Rather than look at scenarios from the perspective what’s best for your favorite player, I find the game much more interesting to look at the HOH moves from that player’s perspective.

    The suggested “plan” is certainly NOT in Vanessa’s best interest.

    Remember Vanessa can’t even play in the next HOH. The “plan” has far too many risks for Vanessa.

    First she risks alienating the remaining Austwins. That’s two players coming for her next week.

    Second, James and Meg are still both in the house, do you really think they will not target Vanessa next week? Remember, from Vanessa’s perspective James broke his word to Shelli. And Vanessa realizes that James and Meg are MUCH closer to the Austwins than they are to anyone else in the house.

    Finally, as mentioned above, Vanessa has to at least suspect that her alliance with JMac and Steve may be one of convenience. Just a couple of weeks ago JMac and Steve were targeting her!

    From Vanessa’s perspective the Steve JMac alliance is designed to deal with the Austwins. If the Austwins are no more (and taking out Liz, does destroy the Austwins), what reason does the alliance have for it’s existence? Strike Three!

    Conceivably, by making the move suggested by Matthew, Vanessa COULD make herself the biggest target in the house all while being unable to play in the next HOH.

    As if that wasn’t enough, let’s look at where that move will position her with the jury.

    Despite the ridiculous idea proposed here that the Austwins will not blame Vanessa for Liz’s eviction (which they most certainly will), Vanessa has to be concerned about jury votes. Vanessa is playing to win, NOT for second place.

    The RISK of losing the Auswin’s jury votes with this betrayal is more risk than Vanessa will take at this time.

    Making herself probably the biggest target in the house AND the risk of losing jury votes makes this “plan” a non-starter. It may hold interest for you if you are ROOTING against Vanessa and the Austwins, but the “plan” is not grounded in any sense of reality. NONE!

    Let’s look at Vanessa actual position.

    I have said since the original nominations were suggested that Vanessa’s best move was to get rid of Meg. James may never be Vanessa’s ally, but he CAN be persuaded that as long as the Austwins remain in the game, they are a bigger threat to his game than is Vanessa.

    Julia agreeing (kind of being pushed) to go up as easily as she did, with very little blow back from Liz or Austin, is PERFECT for Vanessa! Steve has up front agreed to vote to keep Julia (because that’s his intention).

    Steve would make no assurances like that if Liz or Austin were going to be the pawn. To think that Liz or Austin, even if they agreed to go up (they would not agree, but for sake of argument let’s say they will volunteer to go up) would not have gotten a verbal assurance from Steve that he would vote to keep them, is more “magical thinking” on the part of Matthew.

    This is one more reason the above “plan” wouldn’t work. To execute the “plan”, Steve would have to completely expose his game. Why would he do that?

    Anyway, back to Vanessa’s actual position for next HOH (in which she is unable to play).

    Steve and JMac are gunning for the Austwins. The Austwins still think they are aligned with Vanessa and are threatened by JMac (he will most likely be their target). James is probably gunning for Vanessa, but don’t be surprised if she enlists the help of JMac to steer James towards targeting the Austwins.

    Also remember that James and Vanessa had a fairly productive talk recently in the HOH room.

    With all of these points laid out and looking at things from VANESSA’S perspective, I ask YOU, dear reader, to honestly answer this question. if you were Vanessa which “plan” would YOU execute?

    • “Vanessa is playing to win, NOT for second place.”, here’s reality… she won’t even get 2nd if she goes to F4 w/Austwins. So any worry about votes from those 3 may be precluded by 2 of the Austwins in F2 so Vanessa would be in the Jury House.

      But lets put V in F2 hypothetically, the 2 Austwins aren’t voting Vanessa, they vote the 1 of their 3 in F2 whether it be Liz, Julia or Austin.

      I don’t think Vanessa priority is counting the vote, her priority is getting Austwins busted up and her WHY I SHOULD WIN SPEECH rehearsed outlining all her great play. That’s her best chance of winning and it’s slim even with what begins with a re-nom of Liz and her getting JMac & Steve w/James saving Meg.

      I think her chance to win is slim but remaining loyal to Austwins is a sure lose.

      • Disagree completely.

        There still is time for Vanessa to keep the blood off her hands AND get the Austwins evicted. Quite honestly there is no Austwins without Liz. That’s ONE person.

        Vanessa hopes to be able to maneuver whoever puts up the Austwins to eliminate Liz. There’s certainly ample ammunition for Vanessa to make her case to the HOH.

        Forget the jury votes for just a minute and realize that eliminating Liz this week makes Vanessa the biggest target in the house. That alone should be incentive for Vanessa not to eliminate Liz.

        And by the way, Vanessa’s BEST final two may be Julia.

      • As much as I can’t stand the thought of one of the Asstwits winning, it would be better than a cheater winning the game.

      • For now it’s probably a better move for her game, but she will face the same dilemma as there are variables in the game. It really boils down to who’s the best for her to take to F2/F3 (if she gets there) and her argument to the Jury why she deserves the 500K

      • Wouldn’t it be icing on the cake if the jury voted Julia to win over Vanessa? Don’t see it happening, just a personal dream of mine! LOLOL

      • Julia will stay if she is the renom. Steve will vote for her and Johnny Mac will most likely IMO vote the way Steve does. So it would likely be 4-1 to evict Meg.

      • Nobody is really safe at this point in the game. The minute you think you are, boom, you’re a goner.

      • There’s still time to get out the Austwins? Considering she won’t do any of the dirty work herself, that might not go so well. I don’t see how one of those three idiots doesn’t win at this point

      • If the Austwins regain power, Vanessa will attach herself til they have each other to compete against. I think that’s Van’s plan, but will it be the Austwins’ plan? Kinda sketchy at best. The Austwins will take Van out before they take one of their three out. Van loses!

      • Well lets look at that if Liz was gone Van would have 2 to worry about, since Julia hasn’t won sh*t and Liz has, that makes Austwins, Austin/Julia much weaker and most importantly 1 less. SO YEAH, that would be better.

        Plus it might get JMac & Steve fired up to take out Austin or Julia. If Van was really smart she’d tell James I can save Meg & take out Liz but here’s what I need in return, written in blood.

      • Currently Vanessa doesn’t have to worry about ANY of the Austwins! she is tucked safely behind them AND behind JMac on the other side.

        Read the transcripts of what is occurring right now in the house. James is already beginning to set his sights on the Austwins. JMac and Steve are ready to go also.

        During the first HOH of double eviction Thursday, Vanessa will be able to sit back and claim shock and horror that someone has targeted the Austwins (specifically Liz).

        Don’t be surprised if Vanessa regroups after the eviction and tries to work with Austin and Julia to eliminate James.

        The person she most wants to take out Liz is James.

      • Right. Doesn’t make much sense to stick with them all the way when you know you’re at the bottom. Best to take a strike at them now while there are enough willing and able people to help you out.

      • Exactly, Mike… bulls-eye. She can’t get everyone to do her dirty work, now her window she needs to take it for any chance to win.

        Truthfully at this point, don’t want Austwins to win, don’t want Steve/JMac to win IF they are doing Van’s work, definitely don’t want Van to win, so lets see James & Meg – F2, if Meg isn’t evicted Thurs and James isn’t evicted Thurs if there’s a DE. CRAP!!!

      • Seemed you whole argument was “the votes” previously, now I should “forget the jury votes”. Okay, here’s are impasse you believe Van would be the biggest target, I believe she’d be the biggest hero.

        And she would have made the biggest move in the House so far beside James having the “balls” to put up Shelli/Clay. So if that MOVE (Liz OTB) have a domino effect (Austin or Julia follow or both), she’s got a great argument with that MOVE she played the best game.

        Here’s my dilemma, I hope she doesn’t make the move I don’t want to see her win.

      • Actually if you read my argument it clearly talks about both position in the house AND jury votes.

        As to the fact that she’ll be a “hero”, she may be a hero to the people viewing at home, but your jury vote doesn’t count. ;)

      • Vanessa putting up the two weakest players left in the game isn’t a very strong move either. If she intends to overcome a bitter jury, she needs strong, gutsy game moves to do it. This definitely doesn’t qualify. Looks very much like passing the buck as much as possible. She’s put herself in a position where she can get herself further, but with almost no chance to win.

      • To win you have to remain in the game. This move keeps her in the game and keeps bigger targets in front of her.

      • I agree it probably keeps her in the game longer–unless James wins HOH for the DE. Then she’s gone unless she wins the veto.

        I just think she’s going to have to deal with a very bitter jury, assuming she makes it that far. And if she does, she’s going to make an argument based on strong game moves. I get your point of view, but it’s definitely in the minority. And lots of people in the jury house will see this as passing the buck. It’s a bigger risk, yes–with the potential of the big reward(killer jury argument) at the end. In all honesty, I would have rolled the dice and sent Liz out–not because it’s what I want to see, but because it’s the right move. Certainly not without risk, but you can’t sit back and expect the 500k to fall into your lap. Not with the way the house is structured right now.

      • Fair enough Mike. I disagree (but boy would the world be boring if we all agreed!).

        I agree with the bitter jury, however I think the jury would be even more bitter with the Austwins fanning the anti-Vanessa fire!

        Realistically (put any personal feelings aside), Vanessa doesn’t have to get all the Austwins out of the game. Vanessa only has to get Liz out by final five (and she doesn’t have to do it herself!).

        Final five of Steve, Vanessa, Liz, Julia, Austin. Vanessa would try to win and she would take out Liz. At this point there would be no bitterness with the Austwins.

        Vanessa would be working closely with Steve at this point. Steve would also look to eliminate Liz (perhaps because Vanessa instructs him to eliminate her).

        Then it’s Austin and Julia against Steve or Vanessa (because the other has just been HOH). Or is it?

        Remember Vanessa has already approached Julia with a final two back up deal. Being that her sister is already out of the game (even if by Vanessa’s hand), Julia may be willing to work with Vanessa to try to eliminate Austin and/or Steve.

        The same would hold true for Steve. He may work with Vanessa because he’s counting on a bitter jury. And each of the players would most likely, at this point at least, want Julia to be in final three.

        So really, putting aside all personality issues, in my opinion, Vanessa has several cracks at Liz. ONLY when it gets to final five, does she need to make a move by herself.

        Unless both Austin and Julia are gone, Vanessa needs Liz out by final five.

        Don’t be surprised if James targets Liz and Austin if he wins one of the next two HOH’s. I think Vanessa will use JMac to begin pitching just how dangerous it is to keep the Austwins in the game.

      • It was quite a long read & clearly I came out believing you said the jury vote was so important, my point being it doesn’t matter if she doesn’t get to F2, getting to F2 is the priority… that requires eliminating them.

        Actually I meant ‘hero’ to her fellow HGs, it’s not like any of them haven’t had their problems with Vanessa. Not think many of us out here would think her a hero she hasn’t brow-beat or bullied us.

      • Sorry misunderstood “hero”!

        I really believe that Vanessa doesn’t need to do anything personally about the Austwin problem until final five.

        For Vanessa to have a chance at winning the game, Liz has to be gone before final four.

        If you read the transcripts from today, it’s becoming pretty clear that everyone is going to be going after the Austwins. Including James.

        The fatal mistake that may come back to bite the Austwins was agreeing to let Julia be used as a pawn.

        Now no one has to show their cards.

        Vanessa gets out who I believe would have been her target whether James remained on the block or not. James is slowly beginning to realize that his biggest problem is the Austwins and not Vanessa.

        JMac and Steve are poised to strike and Vanessa can sit back and enjoy the carnage! Completely free from blame.

        The biggest worry for Vanessa in Thursday’s second eviction is one of the Austwins winning HOH.

        That means she MAY have to really play for the second HOH and “betray” her alliance.

      • Well, it’s going to be interesting to see what happens, starting with who leaves Meg or Julia. If Julia leaves through no fault of Vanessa’s ;; then we’re off to the races. I still think if Meg leaves, there’s not enough weeks left for Vanessa’s gangstas to take care of business for her, they’re all proven bunglers.

      • That’s all true. However, wouldn’t you want busting the Austwins’ alliance on your resume when presenting a jury argument for 500k?The only people going after her are James(she already pissed him off needlessly last Friday) and Austin. Julia is as useless in comps as Meg is, so I don’t count her

    • I agree 100%!!! This is best and safest move for her right now. She is keeping bigger targets in the game, in front of her. Thank you for great analysis from VANESSA’s point of view.

      • Thanks Aleksandar.

        What’s frustrating here is that so many posters “root” for moves that will further the game of their favorite player(s) or harm the game of the people that they are rooting against.

      • Not necessarily. Matthew was basing moves that have proven to be fool proof in BB than “hoping for the best” kind of moves. Because there are so many variables, and Van’s unstable reliability on others to do her dirty work for her, you need to see which one would be more effective. Putting Liz up there as opposed to Julia and then letting Liz go to jury, there won’t be enough time for them to come up with a plan of attack due to it being DE, which they’re totally not anticipating til next Thurs. Then whoever wins first HoH, put up Austin and Julia, with Austin going and second HoH, you put up Van (if she’s not HoH) next to Austin or for Van’s sake say, you put up JMac next to Austin. Austin will be voted out. Meg can be evicted in F4…but you’ll have Steve, JMac, James and Van left. Any of these is who the jury will most likely vote for in the end than and of the the Austwits! But then Van doesn’t believe she’ll be able to outwit or beat them…that’s why she’s taking the easy way out. I only hope the jury can see through voting for her in the end without too much hostility when making their decision.

      • First, who won’t have enough time to come up with a plan of attack?

        Liz would be nominated TODAY. There is plenty of time for ALL of the house guests to “plan an attack” no matter who is voted out.

        Let’s say for sake of argument (it’s not going to happen) that Liz does get voted out. What makes you so certain (other than the fact that YOU don’t like the Austwins) that Austin will be voted out next?

        Once Liz is voted out Austin’s threat has been somewhat neutralized. And between the renomination (which happens today) and Thursday’s eviction, Austin has plenty of time to work on agreements with the other house guests.

        You may not like Austin or the twins, but the other house guests (with the exception of possibly JMac) seem to like Austin.

        And even JMac, (who really to this point has proven to be nothing more than a floater), may realign with Austin and away from Vanessa depending on who wins the next two HOHs.

        It really is an interesting game, it’s too bad you’re missing it because you are too busy hating on some of the house guests.

      • “I’ll It really is an interesting game, it’s too bad you’re missing it because you are too busy hating on some of the house guests.”
        Excuse me, but this statement is really presumptuous of you. Everyone sees things differently and just because they don’t see what you do, that doesn’t mean they are missing the game.

      • I wasn’t aware until now that there was a “correct” way to view the game. Given the fact that there are multiple HG’s, and many, many commenters on this website, there are infinite takes possible. I don’t watch BB with clinical detachment – I enjoy getting to “know” the players and reacting as I want. If I needed a thesis on the game, this isn’t where I’d come.

      • Quote – Any of these is who the jury will most likely vote for in the end than any of the the Austwits!

        Not sure what your definition of hating is, my version involves calling people mean-spirited names.

      • No hate here…just basing it on my observations of the actions by the hgs and another scenario or variable that could present itself. Just covering more bases than you’ve pointed out due to the unpredictability of these hgs.

      • Julia doesn’t really like Austin either. If Liz were to go before her (won’t happen now IMO), then there would be no real reason, with the proper persuasion, for Julia not to turn on Austin

      • Well of course. If I’m against a particular player, I want her/him to fail. Make the worse move possible all the time.. lol

      • I see Vanessa’s point of view of course. However the other side of the coin is bigger targets make bigger threats to win more comps. So if you don’t get them out now, better make sure you keep being ultra competitive and strategic.

    • Vanessa was already looking for a reason to put up Austin. Vanessa knows she needs to deal with the Austwins.

      Let’s assume JMac wins HoH next week and puts up Austin and Liz as he says he would. Do you think for a minute that Austin and Liz will not blame Vanessa? She’s the one shoe argued for him to stay despite them telling her he is coming after them. I think Austin is already on to Vanessa’s plan here and I think we will hear more talk about it once the POV meeting is over today.

      Then, if Austin and Liz are on the block, whoever remains wins HoH. You don’t think JMac and Steve will throw Vanessa under the bus to save themselves? Isn’t that what they did when Austin was HoH? JMac is not as stupid as Meg and James. He will flip on Vanessa in a second to save himself.

      Vanessa is going to face it soon anyway, maybe even this week. Frankly, getting out Meg this week is a wasted HoH. She can do that any week just like Derrick did with Victoria.

      • JMac putting up Austin and Liz is a COMPLETELY different animal than Vanessa putting up Austin or Liz.

        To not be able to see that is being blind to the realities of the game.

      • That’s only if JMac wins HoH…what if James or Steve do? James would most likely put up Van next to Liz and Liz would be evicted. But why take the chance of the Austwins regaining full power than 2/3 power? They will be weaker without Liz than with her.

      • If James wins HoH and puts up Van vs Liz, James is the deciding vote as to who goes home.
        Austin/Julia vote to keep Liz.
        Steve/Jmac vote to keep Vanessa.
        Liz is more tempting to evict than Vanessa.
        No easy choice.
        1.) If Liz leaves and VJSteve remain in tact,
        and VJSteve win next HoH because James can’t,
        they put up Austin & James and control who leaves with 2 votes versus Julia’s single vote.
        Jmac & Steve might vote out Austin (to leave Julia alone) if Vanessa was the HoH but – – –
        Vanessa would probably vote out James (if Jmac or Steve was the HoH) because she feels more assured Austin would work with her against Jmac/Steve.
        2.) If Vanessa leaves and Austwins remain in tact,
        and Austin wins next HoH because James can’t,
        and he appreciates James “saving” Liz and doesn’t have Vanessa poisoning the well, then –
        Austin probably nominates Jmac & Steve.
        The twins decide who goes home, regardless of who James votes to evict.
        James has a shot the following week of being HoH (little better shot with Vanessa and either Jmac or Steve gone).

      • While that is a different animal the end result would still be Vanessa getting some residual blame. Don’t think for a moment that Austin and the girls haven’t noticed her efforts to keep John. They’ll, if they haven’t already, put it together. She may not come out of it as unscathed as she thinks. Keeping them in for the potential of jury votes wont mean all that much when she’s the one in jury.

      • If Vanessa puts up Liz. Austin and Julia WILL absolutely target Vanessa for the rest of the game, starting this week.

        If JMac puts up Liz and Austin. JMAC is the biggest target for the remaining Austwins TWO EVICTIONS from now.

        Who knows where the game pieces will be set that far down the road.

        JMac eliminating Liz is in no way shape or form even remotely close to Vanessa nominating Liz.

        Vanessa burns all bridges with the Austwins by nominating Liz. It’s delusional for anyone to think that Vanessa will nominate Liz.

      • But Van will risk putting up Julia as a pawn? I say “burn, baby, burn” go for Liz, go for the WIN.

        So it’s not remotely the close? Eliminating Liz or Nominating Liz I guess not, that’s why Van can say ‘they’ (Steve/JMac) flipped on me they were suppose to vote Meg out b/c we knew James would vote Liz.

        Btw, Van is crying & in hysterics that Liz got booted. Maybe Austin after the initial shock is thinking to himself “Damn, that’s a good thing for my game and I had nothing to do with it”, I’m a free man to play the game & maybe still get Liz after BB”.

      • With that scenario, you are correct. JMac and Steve would be a fool to trust Van working with the two of them vs the trio she’d have working with Austin and Julia to target JMac or Steve if either attempt to split the Austwins up! :-)

      • I know JMac said he would put up Austin and Liz on the block but I think he lacks the guts to do it. I liked him for a long time but he goes with who ever is in power. I want someone with guts to win. They all fear James would beat them in FW because he is not afraid to put up anyone

      • Agreed. In his short time with Julie when he was evicted, he mentioned that his main target would be Meg because she was a big threat. He went from a favorite to the bottom of my list for that. Obviously it’s so that he doesn’t get any “blood on his hands”. I haven’t seen him stick up for himself and play his own game except for the one time he was on the block as a pawn, won POV and told the HOH that he was going to use it to save himself.

      • Thanks Prince. That’s what I’ve been thinking about all along. The same can be done with Julia, if Liz is BD’d this week and Austin is sent packing next.

    • Ya that all makes sense, but as other have pointed out, she needs to make it to the final two. But I do agree this is probably better for her game, cuz James, JMac and Steve can still target the Austwins, if one was gone, that just up the target on her back. If the Austwins don’t win HoH thats potentially 3( ulia meh?) targets before Vanessa, with even Julia out, there’s only 2 for sure. I would love for Steve, JMac and Meg tho to all turn and vote out Julia tho lol.

      • Would love it. But Steve and JMac seem to lack what it takes to do that. It would make Austin and Liz scramble to get on the other side

    • Yes! Finally someone who is in agreement with me. The same viewers who want Vanessa to put Liz on the block are the same viewers who don’t want Vanessa to win. She needs to do what is best for her game. I would rather have 1 person (James) gunning for me than 4 people (James, Meg, Austin n Julia) gunning for me.

      • You are right Erin.

        And don’t be surprised if NO ONE is gunning for Vanessa as the main target by Thursday. I think James can be convinced that for HIS game, it’s best to target the Austwins.

        There’s a lot of interesting strategy and subplots to this season, it’s a shame that many viewers can’t see how interesting the game is because they are rooting for a particular player!

      • Agree WTP!

        I am glad that I don’t have a favorite so that I can just enjoy the back and forth. Would be great to see James win and target Van – or Jmac start an attack on Austwins. All makes for great BB TV!

      • I believe that James has already mentioned that he would go after the Austwins and once he has his nominations in his head, he doesn’t change his mind. Both times as HOH, he’s gone after real threatening targets. Too bad he didn’t align himself with at least another strong player.

      • Me too! The Austwins will be her downfall if they’re still left in the game after they’ve annihilated everyone else!

      • Exactly, how someone thinks taking Meg out rather than Liz is crazy. I can understand the Julia re-nom instead of Liz because of totally alienating Austin but secretly he wants Julia gone but maybe not right at the moment but before Austwins go F3. Crap he hasn’t done all that work just to get Liz (he lives CA, she lives in FL – love the one you’re with), he wants some green too.

      • I don’t know. Liz has talked to Julia about moving in with Austin after BB…Austin will find out his gf at home moved to Virgin Islands. Not sure if he’s aware of this or if it was a planned move before he entered the BB house.

      • I agree too. This is best for her game.

        Not only do viewers see it more from their own point of view and biased towards their own HG favorite, they also talk about their justifications using ALL kinds of information from ALL sides. A level of omniscience that no one in the house has.

        Based on the data she has, the relationships she has and the goal of winning BB – this is her best move.

    • I agree with you 100% and would be more than happy to put up my oceanfront property in Kansas, with bridge attached, next to your Arizona property. LOL

    • I agree with you, I really do. I side with the majority of this post, and it was well written and well thought out. However, whether you intended to or not (I would give the benefit of the doubt that you didn’t) there were a few times reading this that you came across a little bit condescending towards Matthew, which I didn’t feel was necessary. At the very least I’d hope and think you’d respect that Matthew’s opinion is also well thought out by himself, even if you completely disagree with it, and as such the response should reflect that. Examples would be saying things like “in any sense of reality” and constantly putting the word ‘plan’ in quotes, when it refers to Matthew’s proposed plan.

      I hope you can respect that this is just constructive criticism, and I’ll reiterate that you made several good/great points in your post in regards to the game, Vanessa’s current standpoint, etc.

      • Very fair critique ZR27!

        I guess my problem with Matthew’s post is that it reads just like many of the comments here on the forum.

        What Matthew is suggesting is something that is not going to happen. Vanessa has actually said that she won’t risk putting up Austin or Liz. Also if Vanessa would actually execute this plan she would blow up her game as well as the Austwins (her closest allies).

        Many posters on this forum would like to see Vanessa blow up her and the Austwins game because they don’t like them. I can understand that. But one would think that someone writing for a Big Brother site would be a little more objective.

        We can go into much more detail, but really from any house guests’ stand point the Austwins can be neutralized in any of the next three evictions, simply by pulling the plug on Liz.

        The main reason for some commentators urgency to target the Austwins is that they want ALL of the Austwins eliminated ASAP. And frankly, that’s not in the best interests of the house guests.

      • From the same conversation.

        Mon 2:58 PM BBTVanessa saying it’s better to take out Liz than Julia next week. NT – 1Rita1

  5. What’s stopping John and Steve voting with James to get rid of Julia? Other than them being scared of Vanessa’s tactics?

    Man, I hope those 2 open their eyes and get rid of Julia.

    • Steve has a crush on Julia. It’s in JMac’s best interest to keep on Van’s good side while she is in power. Plus, JMac doesn’t really care if Meg or Julia goes, as long as it isn’t him.

      • I know what you’re saying & mean no disrespect. Thing is, though, that once she nominates the replacement for James (assuming it’s Julia), Vanessa’s power is done for this week. The power all shifts to the voters (most of whom she has control over, anyway). But. Vanessa is completely vulnerable in the upcoming HoH comp, so it seems REALLY arrogant to leave her fate resting on the POSSIBILITY of one of J or S winning the HoH. She likes to run the odds & those aren’t good ones.

        Texted my mom late last night & said, “Steve & JMac need to THINK: If Vanessa puts up Julia as a “pawn,” voting her out is best for THEM. Makes them a TRIO w/Vanessa, while JaMeg & Liztin are just Duos. Dummies.”

      • “Steve & JMac need to THINK: If Vanessa puts up Julia as a “pawn,” voting her out is best for THEM. Makes them a TRIO w/Vanessa, while JaMeg & Liztin are just Duos. Dummies.”

        Incorrect!

        If JMac and Steve vote out Julia, it makes Vanessa, Liz and Austin a trio. And it puts a nuch bigger target on Steve’s back.

        There is NO WAY that Steve votes out Julia. Especially after he promised her his vote.

        Quite honestly that vote would cost Steve any chance to win the game unless he was next to Meg at the finale.

      • By all means, have a differing opinion than mine and feel free to express it. Do NOT, however, tell me that my opinion is “Incorrect!” because it differs from yours.

      • Thanks, Rose. All of a sudden, this person shows up & is not only disagreeing with posters (which is PERFECTLY ok!), but telling us our opinions are incorrect and that we’re blinded by dislike? Um, how about NO?

      • I wrote that it’s incorrect, because your thinking IS incorrect.

        If JMac and Steve vote out Julia after Vanessa tells them to vote out Meg, Vanessa will no longer work with Steve and JMac. It’s a trust issue.

        Would YOU continue to work with people that you can’t trust?

        You are welcome to think whatever you like, but the reality is that Steve and JMac voting out Julia (which is NOT going to happen) will make Austin, Liz and Vanessa a trio.

        And by the way, voting out Julia is most certainly not in JMac’s or Steve’s best interest.

        Please don’t mistake what you want to happen with what’s in the best interest of the house guests.

      • You need to STOP telling me how to think! You have NO RIGHT to criticize my thinking or my opinions. Remember that YOU are not in the house, either, so have no true way of knowing what ANY of them are thinking, despite seeing DR sessions and/or Live Feeds. I have feeds – there are only 4 cameras on at any given time and there are LOTS of conversations that go unaired. Please don’t mistake what YOU think should happen with what will, either. Your arrogance is astounding.

      • I am not telling you how to think. You are perfectly welcome to ANY opinion you would like to express. I’m am perfectly within my rights to disagree.

        In this instance in expressing your opinion, you disagree with my opinion. We both can’t be right. Which is also fine!

        I would rather everyone have different opinions, it make the discussion more interesting.

        What is also interesting is that you chose not to respond to my question. “Would you continue to work with people that you can’t trust?”

      • Maybe you’re not “telling me how to think,” but telling me I’m “Incorrect” is basically the same thing! I have expressed a different opinion than your almighty one, so I’M the one who’s “Incorrect”. Key piece of information is: IN YOUR OPINION. We do not both have to be right – when dealing in OPINIONS and different viewpoints, there almost always is NOT a right or wrong answer. Just respectful disagreement.

        I have no issue with differing opinions whether I do or don’t like them, but you do NOT have a right to tell me that mine is INCORRECT because it doesn’t match up with yours. Poor choice of words or just blatant disrespect?

        It’s BIG BROTHER – you can’t trust ANYONE if you want to win $500,000! Yes, some people work together to the end and some genuinely DO trust one another, but sometimes in the game, you work with others that you don’t trust to get ALL of you closer to that F2 on Finale Night. Point blank and the period.

      • Steve has a crush on Julia?..Ok I’ll call them Stulia..Sounds like a dish huh? lol ..Have you ever tried Stulia?

    • I was thinking the same thing. They can vote out Julia with James and claim it was Vanessa’s plan all along. If they stick together and swear it was Vanessa’s plan, it will be the word of 2 of them against Vanessa. They may even be able to get James and Meg in on their lie by telling them in advance Vanessa want them to vote out Julia.

      I still think this is a foolproof plan. Vanessa goes home next so she can’t come after them and she won’t have time to convince Austin JMac and Steve are lying.

    • I believe this may be what Vanessa secretly wants. We’ll see when the DRs are revealed on wednesday.

      She can kill two birds with one stone, break up the three, and blame it on the “other side”. Keep on playing both ends against the middle, and retain her “integrity” in the game AND get to play the victim for yet another week.

    • Would love to see that! It’s best for THEIR games. They’re not playing HER game.
      I like the odds of Steve/Jmac/James vs Vanessa/Austin/Liz.

    • That’s what I’ve been saying. Steve needs to incorporate his hinky vote more than ever now than he did voting for Jeff to stay…and get JMac to side with him. So they betray Van and Austin and Liz…they’ll be two against 2 getting revenge since Austin may not be able to win the comps necessary, even better if they align with James and Meg, more James than Meg!

  6. Does she not realize after this week that the Austwins control everything if they are in power. After this week it only takes 2 votes to stay/evict and an HOH will break the tie. So Vanessa is pretty much handing them the F3. UGH. put Liz up and let this game get dirty.

    • She does know, but she also knows that Austwins are so stupid she can manipulate them as easily as anyone else in the house

      • The twins are stupid for sure. But Austin’s demeanor this week has changed. Its obvious. I think he sees what’s going on but he is being careful not to do or say anything that would give Vanessa a reason to put him on the block as a replacement. I still think Vanessa is considering how to put him up.

        I think after the POV we are going to hear Austin talking more about Vanessa and what she is doing. Her refusing to put JMac up or use JMac as a replacement, telling Julia she doesn’t trust Austin and Liz to vote out Meg is JMac is on the block, and wasting an HoH on Meg are sure signs for Austin that she is planning something against the Austwins. Even Julia said something about it the other night.

        If Austin or Liz win the next HoH, I will bet anything that Vanessa and JMac go up on the block and it will be Vanessa going home because JMac with throw her under the bus hard. Steve will help him do it. Then Steve and JMac will pull in James to go after Austwins.

  7. Watching the last few days all I can say is Meg and James deserve to be evicted because they are so bad at strategy in this game. First, their conversations with Vanessa just dig them a deeper hole to be in. Every time they talk to Vanessa or anyone in the house she uses what they said against them. Its remarkable how dumb they are. They have yet to see that no one is with them, yet they refuse to do what JMac did and just throw everyone under the bus – especially Austin!

    They don’t want to be “tattletales” but that is how the game is played. So they are essentially saying, “we don’t want to play the game”.

    Meg deserves to go but at the same time she is such a non-threat it seems stupid to use an HoH at this stage of the game on her. What a waste. Taking her to final 3, like Derrick did with Victoria is smart. Forget about what she deserves, its about someone realizing that taking Meg is a wise move for their own game. She is not going to win the final HoH so she can easily be evicted at F3 or she can be kept for F2 because who thinks Meg would deserve to win if she only made if to the end because she is so bad at the game? If you have a chance to win $500,000, who cares if Meg wins $50,000 for second place if her winning 2nd secure your winning first?

    • While it seems like a complete waste of HOH, it does remove a number she has no control over and is actually controlled by her only primary enemy in the house – James.

      I think she would like to do more. but at this stage and the position she is in, this is all she can get.

      • You’re 100% correct, but everyone wants a big move, therefore she’s wrong (even though she’s not).

      • Not wrong per se but she could be more right.
        She could make a serious move for the other side of the house that are in jury. I think Shelli, Jackie and Becky would look upon her way more favorably if Liz ends up there.
        It would be a gamble but right now I don’t see her winning against Liz, Austin, JMac, Steve or James. But then again, I thought Dan would win so I probably shouldn’t be trusted.

      • That’s an interesting thought. I’d have to think about that one. My gut still tells me the risk outweighs the reward, but it’s interesting.

    • Yes, it seems stupid but Vanessa thinks Meg is going to do well in te days comp is she stays. Its a stupid deal except Vanessa is thinking exactly how Derrick felt about Victoria. Meg is a vote. She is not a threat to take anyone out but when there are so few votes left, one vote is huge, especially going into a DE week. Vanessa is not playing HoH this week so it is crucial for her to secure votes not to get evicted. Honestly, sending home Meg is just a bad idea. It is time to make a big move. Forget about getting blood on her hands its about doing as she said she was going to do which is to redraw the lines in the house. Getting out Meg is not redrawing any lines except James will be gunning for Vanessa and he will be in the house the next two week to try it.

  8. A little something happened last night. Steve/Austwuss playing chess and Van kept telling Austwuss not to make that move and giving him hints. Steve got mad and told Van to stop it but she kept doing it and Austwuss won. Austwuss said The Boy has a Voice. Steve announced he didn’t lose to Austwuss but to Van.

    Steve may just have seen who Van really favors and may be mad enough to get a Steve/JMac/James/Meg alliance. He’s the linchpin to bring that group together and he’s said he should take Meg to F2 so…

    Fingers crossed people!!

    • I hope this is true, but as always BB shows us what we want to see and hear, but the HGs always keep their plans the same. Julia will go up and Meg will leave. if Steve is smart he’ll ditch Vanessa and John does anything he says anyway. I just hope James sticks around until the end so I hope anything good for him to happen.

    • Steve and Johnny Mac’s interests are aligned with Vanessa like it or not. If any of the other house guests, be it James, Liz, Austin, Julia (assuming Meg is the one evicted) wins the next HOH, it is very likely that atleast two of them, Johnny Mac or Steve or Vanessa is on the chopping block. It could be the two of them, Steve and Johnny Mac side by side with a Vanessa backdoor option. That is the reality. The Goblin-Austwins alliance is still in the majority and the only thing to change that is for either Steve or Johnny Mac to win the next HOH and put up James and Liz side by side to split up that alliance for good. Vanessa not targeting Liz this week is a very bad move which could prove very costly. She had to make her move now because the other side already controls the majority and will need only to target Vanessa, Steve and Johnny Mac and finish them off should they win the next HOH!

      • If James (wins HOH) and puts up Steve & Jmac:
        If Vanessa wins POV and pulls down Jmac, they’re both safe.
        James (with Meg gone) has to then put up an Austwin.
        So he puts up Austin, as an example.
        Vanessa/Jmac have 2 votes to save Steve.
        Liz/Julia have 2 votes to save Austin.
        James will be deciding vote.
        Does he keep Austwins in tact or VJSteve in tact?
        I think he keeps Austwins because at that point, neither Jmac nor Steve are likely to convince James they’ll “be there for him” against Austwins.
        With Austwins having Julia – that’s really like having 2 competing against you.
        With VJSteve – it’s like 3 good competitors against you and one of them is an excellent liar/manipulator.

  9. Again, Vanessa should not even be in the house anymore. She signed a contract, which she broke. Paragraph/clause 43 clearly states: “I am aware that it is a federal offense punishable by fine and/or imprisonment for me or anyone to do anything that would rig or in any way influence the outcome of the Series with intent to deceive the viewing public (including, without limitation, colluding to share any prizes, stipends or other monies),”………it goes on to say: “I acknowledge and agree that any agreement between me and any other participant(s) to share the Prize, if awarded to me or such other participant(s), shall constitute a deceptive or dishonest act hereunder.” It ends by saying that the HG who signed the contract knows that the violation “shall give Producer the right to terminate my participation from the Series and to withhold any prizes, stipends and/or other monies even if already awarded, granted, earned and/or received by me”.

    • So James should go as well?

      From Jokers:
      Sun 7:02 PM BBTJames and Meg are discussing jury votes. James is offering to pay Megs rent for a year if he wins. NT – Vixter

      I think Mike is right. They don’t want to have to use that clause. It is selective enforcement. If she continues and truly undermines the gameplay, they will be forced to use it. But that is something CBS does not want to do.

      • Thank you for being a voice of reason.

        I’m not a big fan of Vanessa’s either but this stuff just gets ridiculous. Because it’s completely not alright to give her a stern warning and only take further action if she continues to violate what’s been asked? Like come on.

        Chima in Season 11 was expelled for REPEATED defiance. Even after destroying her microphone they told her to come get a new one (and I’m sure would’ve sternly told her don’t do that again).

        This idea of ‘one and done’ is a bit of a joke; one offense and you’re gone. Maybe if Vanessa does this again there will be a case to ask for her to get expelled. Until then it’d be nice if people just knock it off when it seems so clear that the main reason they say it is just that they don’t like Vanessa. If their favourite player screwed up ONCE, would they be wanting them expelled?

    • They have the “right” to terminate, meaning they can if they want to. It doesn’t mean they have to. I’ve only read the portion you posted, but it reads like the show wanted to include the legal stuff as a formality, but then leave it up to the producers for final decisions.

      • True, they have the “right” to terminate her, which IF they expect other clauses of the contract to be enforceable then they should enforce all of them. By their potentially ignoring her illegal activity they are, again, having far too much influence in how the season plays out.

    • I find the “intent to deceive the viewing public” interesting because legally, if she does it again after a warning and they allow it to continue, the live feeders should have claim against CBS to get their money back if they paid with the intention of seeing a fair game.

  10. My days of hoping for intelligent and bold decisions, with this group of hg’s, is over.

    Meg=Victoria and you take her to f3 with you and your f2. It’s dumb to eliminate an irrelevant player.

    Julia will never win because she won’t have the jury votes. So keep her dumb dumbs.

    Vanessa has played a dirty game and an upset jury will be spiteful. She needs Austin or Julia as f2 or she loses.

    Steve could win this. He’s good enough to win competitions and is aligned with everyone. He needs the austwins broken up and jmac to stay as the bigger target. He also has the jury votes over the remaining players.

    James needs to win everything once meg is gone. He’s no Frank uday, so I don’t see that happening. He may get some jury votes but I cannot see him making f2, or even f5.

    Jmac has enemies. He’s been runner up to some hoh’s and Vanessa, the most influential player, is working with him for now. However, Van will discard him once the dirty work is done. I like that he gives zero f’s but he’s too high up on too many remaining hg’s target list to last to f2. If miraculously, he makes f2 he will have the jury votes to win… That is also a reason I cannot imagine him making f2.

    Austin, IMO, is playing one of the best games. Van wants to take him to f2 and, of course, he’s aligned with the twins. As of now, he isn’t an immediate target. If his alliance can hold, we’ll see after the DE, he has the 2 strongest players (Liz and Van) that will take him to f3. If he’s standing next to Van at finale night, a po’d jury might give Austin the $. Of course he’ll likely screw this up and fall on his sword for Liz. That right there couldn’t be anymore pathetic…

    Finally Liz! She has Austin and Julia and can easily win hoh comps vs this group of brainiacs. She absolutely needs to sell van an f3 deal and must continue to have her side win comps. Once James and jmac get eliminated (I’m guessing they’re next) Van will have no choice but to ride austwins to f4. If Liz makes f3 with Austin and Julia she’ll win. If it’s her vs Van at finale she’ll win.

    To sum: meg, James, jmac, and Julia have zero chance of winning. Either they won’t make it that far or they won’t have the jury votes.

    4th best chance to win is Van. Her game is sloppy because austwins are onto her and jurors will not vote for her unless someone worse is next to her.

    3rd best chance is Austin. He could win this thing but he will sacrifice his game for a girl that doesn’t like him.

    2nd best chance is Steve. He’s under the radar and understands bb better than anyone remaining. He needs austwims broken up and Van’s full trust again.

    And your winner is (I really don’t know and nobody does) Liz… She’s is in the most powerful alliance, has people that’ll sacrifice themselves for her and is feared by everyone. I can’t believe hg’s didn’t eliminate her (and Julia) before week 5.

    On a final note, Julie Chen suggested bb18 be all the winners returning to the bb house to faceoff. That would be a dream!!

    • Solid analysis Mark.

      However unless her side keeps winning, I think Liz is in real danger in the next few evictions. Vanessa has already approached Julia on a final two (with the caveat that Liz is evicted). And Vanessa has a long standing final two with Austin. I really doubt that Liz will convince Vanessa to make a final three.

      My bet is Vanessa will persuade the next HOH (if possible) to actually target Liz. And I think that anyone who is HOH will buy her logic.

      Liz is the lynch pin that holds the Austwins together, remove the pin and you neutralize the danger from the Austwins.

      • That’s what frustrates me to death about this season. Why do they all keep running to each other to get permission for what they’re thinking of doing? Especially running to Vanessa – it’s bad enough how mercilessly she hounds them, so stop going to her with information that will ultimately help her more than them.

      • I think it is very possible that Liz could win. I think her and Austin are both in good positions.

        However there are so many variables, that it’s hard to come up with an odds on favorite.

        For example, if Liz would be evicted, how would Austin handle the situation? Would he blow his game up or would he strategically work his way back into a tighter alliance with other house guests.

        Would James be willing to work with Vanessa after Meg is evicted? I saw some willingness on his part to perhaps consider what she has to say if he wins HOH.

        Can JMac and Steve hide their alliance for a couple of more weeks? If they do would Vanessa consider seriously teaming up with the two of them (as opposed to using them to target Liz)?

        Personally I think this is a very interesting season. Lots of subplots.

        Last season, it was pretty clear that Derrick was in complete control of the game. He played a masterful game. This season I don’t think there is a clear cut favorite to win!

        As I said I like the positions of Liz and Austin, but there are people getting ready to target them.

        I also think that if Vanessa can slip by the next few evictions, she may again put herself into a position to make the finals. At this point her best final two would be Julia.

        Vanessa is a very interesting character. For some reason she feels she has to validate her decisions to the rest of the house. I think she would have been the clear cut favorite if she just played the game and tried not to be the “judge, jury and executioner” for every eviction.

        I also wonder if Austin wouldn’t have fared better if he hadn’t developed a showmance with Liz. Could he have helped keep Vanessa grounded?

        Sorry I can’t give you a straight answer.

        If someone MADE me pick a winner right now, I’d pick Austin. Mainly because I think that Vanessa is going to get the other house guests to target Liz when they eventually go after the Austwins.

    • And they will all be 1-18 years older then they were when they played! Finally! We’d be getting some “older” players!! Lol!

  11. With the DE this Thursday night, I look for Vanessa or Liz to be taking a walk out the house if James gets either HOH.

  12. I still have to believe that Vanessa sees this obvious play, she is too strategically smart not to. She knows she will have James & JMAC’s vote to get Liz out she just needs to be sure of Steve.

  13. Do not like Vanessa but I thought she was a smart player until this week. She can not see that with Austin, Julie, and Liz, the best she can hope for is 4th place. If she decided to work with James and Meg, she would be 3rd and she knows she can beat meg in any competition. She could bring in Johnny Mac and Steve and the twins and Austin are gone. I did not like the twin twist. It automatically gave one side a step up. And I think as soon as the house guest figured it out, it should have been over and Julie would never have joined the game. Vanessa, Liz, Austin, Julie, and Shelli and Clay when they were there talked about not wanting blood on their hands, especially Liz. I hate that kind of player to win. Of the ones left, only James is not afraid to play. Vanessa has played and is still there, not be brains, but by lies. I said before she plays a lot like Dereck, except she lacks his likeability. But both played almost out of fear and told lies. When Dr Will played he lied but he told them he was lying. He was so much fun to watch. Julie Chen said they even checked to see if he really was a doctor because he was so good at it

  14. Her decision isn’t bad. James winning was her worst case and shes looking to do damage control. She might urk the twins by nominating Julia as a pawn but they will still be more focused on John. John & Steve will be more focused on the Austwins so Vanessa is sitting pretty next week unless James wins and even then he will likely have to target the Austwins as they are a huge threat. Enjoy not being the number 1 target next week and let someone else do the dirty work of eliminating Liz. Unless of course Steve decides to vote out Julia… but that doesn’t seem to be the case.

    • The twins are already questioning why she is so adamant about keeping JMac. Even Julia commented that she wants to keep JMac to come after them. Vanessa’s plan should blow up in her face. We won;t see it until after Thursday because the Austwins will want to make sure Julia doesn’t get evicted but I am almost certain Vanessa has tipped her hand.

      The Austwins know very well JMac is their worse enemy in the house and that made it clear to Vanessa too. For Vanessa to keep him while evicint a non-threat like Meg is a clear sign where Vanessa is going.

  15. There are no men in the house other than james.

    Steve and John should (but won’t) just vote out Julia, regardless of what they told Vanessa, as it it “better for their own game”. All the other have been doing that the entire game, including Vanessa.

    And don’t even get me started on Auston not being a “man”.

  16. VAnessa has been HoH 3 times and in those 3 HoHs she has evicted Jeff, Jason and Meg! LOL What a bold player! and this is the same person who called the rest of the HGs wimps.

      • It set a chain of reactions and woke up the Goblins from their summer slumber. So yeah, good move!

      • Well they had power for two weeks and they should have evicted Vanessa instead of Shelli. So Becky and Jackie’s eviction were somehow their fault actually. By evicting Shelli, they changed the course of the train, setting another chain of reactions.

      • Jason was a good move, I agree, as he knows the game like Steve does. Though early on I remember Vanessa saying Jeff was a strong player and a threat because of his social game. Really Vanessa? That early in the game you determined he was a threat and a strong player because he was making friends? That was pretty weak on her part. I wish she would just call a spade a spade and say she was riding her own hunch, but many players tend to not do that in Big Brother as they feel they need better justification when explaining to others why they did it.

  17. So what good is it re-nomming Julia if the plan isn’t to backdoor her? I know I’m not much of a schemer, but what am I missing here? “Grandma still goes to the retirement home”? Why? Why evict an embarrassingly useless player? To show Austwins they can trust her? Sorry for all the question marks – I’m truly confused.

    • Vanessa is nominating Julia to ensure Austin and Liz vote out Meg. Its not about evicting Meg, its about saving JMac so he will go after the Austwins if he wins HoH.

      I think the Austwins know this but they really cannot do anything to prevent it. They created this mess by not evicting Vanessa earlier. Now, like James and Meg, they have to deal with the fact that she is coming after them.

      • I wonder if the Austwins are smart enough to wonder why Vanessa is so committed to keeping Steve and John.

      • Julia did comment to her sister than she thinks Vanessa is saving JMac so he will coming after them. So I think they at least suspect it. But they have to be careful what they say because Vanessa could change her mind and put up Liz or Austin which would be worse.

        I want to see what happens after the noms are locked in. They still have to be careful because Julia is on the block and the vote could flip, but come Thursday after Meg is evicted, I think Austin and the twins will open up about how they really feel.

      • Interesting….Jmac is so silly I don’t put it past him to tell them at some point “Vanessa kept me to go after you guys”

        It may work in his favor if the twins come into power to throw Vanessa under the bus.

      • He absolutely will if the Austwins win HoH. He will throw Vanessa under the bus hard to save himself.

    • a theory I saw is everybody who goes up against Meg goes home because she is such a bad player, they need her out so none of them go home being put up next to her. Also I wonder if Van wants James in her pocket because without Meg he has no one.

    • Because she’s a number against them and Van is too paranoid to trust Meg or James to keep their word once she’s made the move to save Meg.

  18. One more thing about Vanessa and the Austwins that makes them unlikable. They make the people they are going to evict Have Nots to add insult to injury. Its means. They did it to JMac and they are doing it to James and Meg. They know Meg has a hard time sleeping on the dentist chairs because of her knees. These people are just ugly people.

    Remember when Vanessa was Becky’s target? Jackie volunteered to be a have not for Vanessa who had her period. Jackie saved Vanessa from the discomfort. That’s what good people just playing a game do.

    • Especially when they’re all now jurors or winners.
      But to hear the twins say on tv that they don’t know why Jmac is coming after them in the same breath as telling us that they put him up after promising him safety…. I think their heads must be solid surfaces; nothing seems to be getting through to them. They obv think they either don’t need Meg’s/James’ votes in Jury or that MJ won’t be bitter. They’re betting half a mil on it. So that is not only unkind/inconsiderate, it is also not too bright.

    • I agree with the idea of not singling out your targets to be have-nots, but I don’t agree or sympathize with Meg about her knees. Should she get a pass for the entire season because of something she could be embellishing? I don’t think so. I’ve had knee issues and there’s lots of things worse for that than sleeping on a dentist chair.

  19. Please, nobody, not fellow houseguests, not production, nobody get in Vanessa’s ear. I’m not that big of a fan of Vanessa anyway so I have no real desire to see her make the clearly smarter move of nominating Liz and having her evicted. I can’t stand Meg and I love the idea of her leaving.

    Yes, I admit, this is completely biased, and is not the smartest game move, but unbiasedly I do NOT think it’s as stupid as so many others do. Bottom line, Meg is a houseguest and you need to eliminate all but 1 to get to the end, so evicting anybody is still a step forward. It’s also not the worst thing to take away James’ only true ally and weaken him in the game.

    Nominate Julia today, please, and evict Meg. I’ve been waiting for this. She’s my most disliked player left in the game.

    • Shes the most disliked player? hardly. The most useless? Maybe, but she and Julia are still in the running for that title.

      • My most disliked player, not ‘the’ most disliked player. I don’t pretend to speak for anybody else but myself. I personally can’t stand Meg and I want her gone.

      • I agree though Julia is just as useless lol, though she hasn’t gotten to play in nearly as many competitions as Meg. Even after entering the house to play for herself, her chip is often not picked for Veto competitions. I wouldn’t mind a Julia eviction either, so in case the house flips and keeps Meg, I won’t hate it too much.

      • I still can’t believe that James and Meg blamed everything on Clelli during Vanessa’s HOH.
        Then the way they treated Becky didn’t help matter either since I was rooting for her. I really won’t mind seeing Meg leave either since it will weaken James.

      • Meg in the jury would be a solid vote for James if he makes it to the finale. Wonder who James will work with once Meg is gone?

    • I think Meg deserves to go for being such a moron and turning on her ally to evict Shelli instead of Vanessa. It’s such sweet turn around to see Vanessa evict Meg.

      • Agreed, I enjoy that Meg and James’ decision to turn on Becky (and basically screw her over in the game) is coming back to bite them both in the butt; James losing his only real ally and Meg directly affected by being evicted. None of this happens if they keep Shelli and evict Vanessa when Becky had Vanessa dead to rights.

      • Doesn’t help that they have lost 4 straight HOHs either. Even if they had voted out Van, with their inability to win power, they likely would be in same predicament – if not worse.

      • Who knows though if Shelli could have pulled out a win had she stayed? Now yes, for revenge Shelli would target James, but I think she’d also target Austin and by extension, Liz/Julia. This of course though is speculation. Vanessa may well have influenced Shelli’s nomination decisions as well, I’m aware. I also believe Becky more than likely is still in this game if Vanessa is evicted when they had the chance, so that’s another number for Meg and James.

      • U r right – who knows?

        Shelli did say last nite that she would’ve targeted James had she come back in from jury. But no guarantees there either – that’s true. It’s all speculation.

        Hindsight is always 20/20. Only way the Goblins are for sure safe is if they would’ve won power. No matter who they voted out that week, they needed to win power as the minority alliance in the house “soon”. That was my only point.

        Imagine if Jmac had won that final round against Liz in the emoji comp. Van would likely be gone now (never know for sure). And this discussion would not have happened. We’d be talking about how the Jason eviction was the start of the death march for the SS.

        For all its detractors, I think this season has been pretty good and definitely not boring.

      • Well said, I agree with your entire post. John for sure would have targeted Vanessa that week and I don’t think anyone would’ve saved her if she didn’t win the Veto herself.

        Lots of naysayers about this season, but I haven’t been disappointed. This coming from a guy who watched his favourite players walk out the door one after another (Clay, Shelli, Becky, John*) but then I remembered how my 3 most disliked at the start of the game — Audrey, Da’Vonne, Jason — were all out before jury.

        The game will always have ups and downs for any fan/viewer.

      • I shared the same BB likes and dislikes as you and I really don’t understand all the Goblin love.

      • I’m all for opinions varying and all that, but I also can’t seem to grasp how so many people love the Goblins. I’m glad to know at least somebody out there is on my page. Thanks Foxfire!

      • Too bad the Goblins ruined Becky’s game since they lost a competent comp winner in the bargain.
        Even if Shelli had nominated James he had 4 people willing to vote to keep him (maybe more) as well as have a chance to win POV.
        It’s not that they just voted out Shelli instead of Vanessa but the fact that they so blithely ruined Becky’s game that leaves me smh.

      • Look at it from their perspectives. She was playing both sides. She was lying to them and giving out info. She’s not to be trusted. They believed she was working with Shelli more than them…which was true. She would’ve formed an alliance with Shelli and John. In this respect, Shelli had to go.

      • Once Shelli was gone Becky was all alone in the game. Becky would’ve been just as loyal to the Goblins as she had been to Clelli. Sure, Becky wasn’t a perfect candidate to join the Goblins but she was another number for them at least as well as a comp threat.
        I thought it was extremely tacky the way the Goblins treated Becky since it didn’t benefit them in any way to lose her.

      • I also hated what they did to Becky and I’m glad Vanessa staying in the game is currently biting them both in the butt. They deserve it. Becky didn’t deserve to have her HoH wasted. She only even nominated Shelli in the first place to remain loyal to everyone who agreed she had to be nominated no matter who was HoH next.

      • Glad I’m finally able to vent about the horrible way the Goblins treated Becky. The Goblins were all behind Becky getting rid of Vanessa until selfish James makes all the strategy about him instead of the alliance and easily talked Meg and Jackie into doing something stupid to their game in order to help his game.
        Becky just thought the Goblins were as loyal and honest as she was and it never occurred to her that they would stab her in the back when putting Shelli on the block.
        The game just hasn’t been the same for me since Clelli left and I’m enjoying seeing the Goblins squirm this week.

      • You are very right that they really screwed Becky’s game with HOW they handled it. If they wanted to partner with her (and it would have been a good idea, I believe), they could/should have been far more upfront about their targets to not leave her so exposed.

      • She would’ve lost. They showed us in the jury house she watching the tape and answering the HOH questions. She would’ve lost HOH in DE, she said the wrong answer. Liz still would’ve won HOH. Shelli didn’t know the answer either.

      • I didn’t just mean if Shelli had won the HoH during the DE, but just any HoH if she had stayed (and thus in this respect, if she survived the DE and then there are other, subsequent HoH competitions to pick from that Shelli may have won).

      • Vanessa has nominated James, as her target, and is now settling on targeting Meg.

        Do you think Shelli would have gone after Meg?

        Sure, there’s a chance they’re still in trouble if Shelli stays, as she probably would gun for James, but this week, right now, wouldn’t be taken place, as Vanessa would be gone. Unless of course she won the returning juror competition.

        This game is vastly speculation and hindsight, so drop the condescending attitude. Thanks.

      • Had Steve been evicted last week instead of Jmac, Shelli would have been the returning juror. Steve fell before her. Vanessa still probably would have been HoH so Shelli would have worked with Vanessa to get James out.

      • You’re speculating as much as I am, or as much as anyone. There’s no guarantee James is in jury if Shelli stays. Even if she wins an HoH and nominates James, maybe he wins Veto, maybe he sways votes to vote to evict his co-nominee. Lots of variables.

      • For all we know if Shelli stayed, maybe JAmes would have been long gone by now. With WHAT IFS there are too many things that could or could not have happened. We never really know.

      • Yep, that’s true. What if’s only make for discussion but ultimately it’s all speculation; we never really know.

  20. The Twins have got to go. It makes me sick that one of them will probably win this season. Liz on the show last night was disgusting. “I hate Johnny Mac-uh! He has a vengeance against us for no reason-uh!” What a stupid witch.

      • The Troll also plays a victim as well and he does scream like a girl, so he can audition for Law & Order too right? Or Scream Queens as a back-up audition.

  21. Sorry to see Meg go but it’s actually a good move on Van Van’s part. She already has a house full of angry jurors, she can’t have three more angry trolls in case she ends up in F2. She knows she can’t count on James & Meg’s vote anyway so it doesn’t really matter whoever goes from those two.
    When it’s down to 7 people and James is still around, she has a double protection from the Troll’s Angels and the Rockstars to ensure a safe passage to Top 6.
    I think by the time she’s in the Top 6, all bets are off.

    • Good assessment, I agree with you. Many are making it sound like there’s absolutely zero good in evicting Meg, and I pretty much shake my head at that. There are definite pros, even if it’s not the absolute smartest move she could make right now.

      • I think many are upset because they want the Trolls gone instead of Meg, mostly because, well … they are trolls.
        If the Trolls are truly “angels” and popular, many will be rooting for Meg to be evicted this week.

      • Yea, I agree there too, many want the Austwins out. Some out there even just…like Meg, or at least a lot more than they like the Austwins. Then there are those who just crave drama no matter what, and admittedly, nominating Liz would probably make for some entertainment. I selfishly am just going to focus on the happy thoughts of not having to see Meg anymore.

    • I’m not disagreeing that Vanessa already has a house full of angry jurors, but how many times do see on BB or Survivor for that matter, when you swear Jury Member X is never, ever in a million years going to vote for Contestant Y to win it all, because they stabbed them in the back and ran over them with a truck. But they end up giving them their vote for the win and the money. I’m not saying this is going to happen with Vanessa, but I wouldn’t be so sure who will or will not vote for Vanessa if she makes it to the Final 2.

      • Probably so since in Vanessa’s case since she already bribed everybody. Even though she was “shut down” and said it was all just “gambling terms” and meant nothing, it’s out there now and they all know it… So would they vote for person X knowing they get nothing or person Y knowing there was that “verbal contract”???

  22. Austin not a good idea with Liz – never leave the one you love for the one you like because the one you like will leave you for the one they love – good luck to you both!!!!

  23. In her talk with James Vanessa again playing the victim and using the ” am gay” card. PLEEEEEZ Vanessa, stop with the being gay bit. I don’t think anyone in the house gives a darn about your sexual prefrences.

    • The only person in the house who has ever cared is Vanessa. She didn’t want to nominate Audrey because she didn’t want to be a gay woman picking on a transgendered woman, when Audrey was just bat sh*t crazy, which had nothing to do with her being transgendered.

  24. My wish DE…….James wins HOH. James put Vanessa and Liz on the block……POV not played. Steve and John vote to evict Liz, and Austin and Julia vote to evict Vanessa. James has the final say and evict Vanessa. Next, Steve or John wins HOH and put Austin and Liz on the block. Liz is evicted. Now that’s a final 5 that’s more bearable.

  25. I would like to see “zero lag time” between the HOH winner in the DE and he or she putting up their nominations. Julie could inform them AFTER the HOH has been won that they are all to go back inside and immediately take their seats on the couch. No scampering, talking or pulling anybody into another room etc.

  26. I may be wrong but I believe that if Meg leaves that Jmac will pull James to his side and Steve will join them…Jmac is not dumb and getting rid of Meg would make James need a new friend… something to ponder

    • Steve will not leave his Mommy’s side. Someone has to send her to jury first……preferably James.

    • I do think that’s possible but I don’t think JMac can break free of Steve at this point. His and Steve’s lot is tied together.

    • I’d be cool with that. If Meg is gone this week, my next top choice for eviction is James, and I really wouldn’t mind at all if it’s Vanessa.

      At this point to be honest as long as it’s not John, I’m fine with any eviction.

      • Pretty sure you know that jag0581 meant Julia or James win HoH and take either James or Vanessa out, respectively. Julia HoH –> James out, or James HoH –> Vanessa out.

  27. Off topic, but another suggestion to the “Brass” at BB. Instead of another season of “All Stars” down the road, how about one featuring the past most hated players. And don’t play coy/dumb, you know who they are or have been. Frankie, Vanesa, Liz to name a few. You can even call it whatever you like (eg. BB’s Most Notable players…the home audience will know what you mean. That way we can get they joy of all but 2 of them get evicted again…

  28. Listening to AD last night, how can James be trusted? Any promises he makes it seems like he has no intentions of keeping them.

    • Vanessa was allied with Shelli when James made a deal with Shelli during the HoH competition to keep her and Clay safe. He was extremely quick to go back on that and then he talks about he’s honest and a straight-shooter. There’s absolutely no reason to trust James’ word on a deal and I’m glad Vanessa remembers that. I never respected that move from James, he knew he could last a long time on that wall and that Shelli was struggling, and thus, don’t make that deal, James. You want to be a straight-shooter then just don’t make the deal, outlast Shelli, win HoH without that deal, and nominate her and Clay.

  29. Will Steve/JMAC approach JAmes to get him to work with them to get rid of an Austwin or Vanessa? They need him and time is running out. Do I recall a conversation between James/JMAC eluding to this?

    • I don’t think James needs too much encouraging to get rid of Vanessa, just wind him up and let the carnage begin. I can see him joining maybe John, I don’t know about Steve. I’m still not sure if Steve wants to go to the Final 2 with Vanessa or John more.

    • The question is will JMac and Steve see an even better opportunity. They can vote out Julia with James and then tell Austin/Liz that was Vanessa’s plan all along. That’s why she kept JMac safe and put Julia up. She wanted to take down the Austwins by one this week and then take out Austin or Liz in the DE.

      If James, Steve and JMac all stick to that story then tell Austin they want Vanessa out too, the whole house could get out Vanessa next. Then it would be James, JMac, Steve and Meg against Austin and Liz. If that happens I think Steve and JMac have a better than even chance to make final 3.

  30. James continues to believe what Vanessa tells him This time she tells him he is not on anyone’s priority list. He can believe that right up until he is on the block against JMac again next week.

  31. Van is making the right move. There was no sense targeting Austwins at F8. To think you won’t get another opportunity at the HALF WAY mark is exaggerated. And to target Liz after Veto increases Vanessa’s target if Liz got sent home. Everyone (including Van) knows a F4 with them gives her a very slight chance to win. She’s hoping over the next 4 HOHs that Austwins will be broken up – and not by her. But Austwins would have sniffed out Van putting up Liz without her consent. They can already sniff out JMac not going on the block.

    At some points of the game (especially if you’ve been the main target earlier), you need to let other targets become bigger players and lessen the target on your own back.

    It seems weird, but I think Vanessa has the highest chance of surviving the DE Thursday with the current noms. Think about it: she only gets nominated if James wins first HOH, and she has the votes to stay with JMac/Steve as the other potential nominee. Anybody else wins HOH, James is going home. Austwins would target James/JMac/Steve and JMac/Steve would target James/Austwins. She then gets an opportunity to win her 4th HOH at F6. That’s the time to make a move.

    Van has allowed herself a bloodless F8, and an easy F7, with a really good shot at winning HOH at F6. Putting Liz up and her going home will put Van has Target A in the mind’s of 4/6 players (Julia/Austin/Meg/James).

    • Exactly. Vanessa made the best move with the current hand dealt. Austin and his twins are still sitting in the best spot in the house. If they ran the table now (which they could with at least 2 shots/3 shots for each HOH), they could win the game.

  32. I was so annoyed when Austin was telling jmac that the best way to make amends and rebuild trust was for him to go back on the block so they could save him this time. What an idiotic claim to make
    Why not Austin volunteer to put his ass on the block and trust jmac and Steve to keep him. But what annoyed me more is jmac sat there smiling and agreeing with him. Just stupid imo. I get that jmac is trying to smooth things over but he could have disagreed. Even his little laugh ha ha no that’s ok, I will trust u guys you don’t need to prove anything. At least that would humorously put Austin know that going up again was not going to be cool with jmac.

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