Big Brother 17 Final 3: Who Should Win? Season Stats & Strategy

After a long, dramatic, teary, and all-over-the-place summer, we are finally down to the Final 3 houseguests of Big Brother 17.

BB17-Scorecard-F3
Big Brother 17 Final 3: Liz, Steve and Vanessa

We’ve got Vanessa, the millionaire poker player who has cried her way to the end; Liz, the other half of a twin sisterhood and showmance that had her path to the end literally cleared for her; and Steve, the token nerd superfan who managed to get all the way there without his mom or his trombone.

So which of those three played the best game? And which of those three deserve to win Big Brother 17? Are those two people the same? Let’s pick apart the Big Brother 17 final three one by one and see if we can answer those questions. Let’s do this alphabetically:

Liz Nolan

BB17-Scorecard-Liz

Liz came into the game with her sister Julia as part of the twin twist. While she and Julia weren’t identical enough to pull off the twist for long (that pesky tooth), they did manage to stay for most of the game. Was it game prowess that helped keep such huge targets in the game? Well, that’s up for debate. But I’m going to go ahead and say no.

I believe Liz made it to the end because she aligned with the right people and she got lucky that more people didn’t see her and her twin sister as a threat. These kinds of things tend to happen when recruits outnumber fans of the show.

Aligning with the most powerful people in the house and faking that showmance with Austin (that later turned into the real deal) were some of Liz’s best moves in the game. But Liz’s best quality was her loyalty. She never betrayed a member of her alliance, and every time she had to nominate someone for eviction, she stayed true to her allies. That deserves some respect.

Liz’s competition record (3 HOHs and 1 veto) are also pretty impressive for a contestant not many people expected to do well in the game. Liz’s strategy wasn’t the greatest as she turned to Vanessa and Austin a lot on what to do, but her social game is outstanding compared to the other two people in the final three.

Does Liz deserve to win Big Brother 17? Yes. I think the fact that Liz outlasted so many people despite playing with a twin and being in a showmance is reason enough to consider voting for her in the end.

Can Liz win Big Brother 17? This I’m not sure of. I think Liz could beat Steve, but not Vanessa. But it’s always so hard to tell what a jury will do. But I do think there’s a chance with James, Meg, Jackie, Austin and Julia sitting on that jury.

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565 Comments

      • That’s what I thought. But then people are saying that the comp was edited to look like he hadn’t thrown it and his diary room was recorded earlier (which I don’t get).

      • It could certainly be edited in that way would not be the first time and wont be the last. The diary rooms are recorded after the comps. There would be no way to ask comp questions in a pre comp diary room.

      • Yes – this exactly. To me it did not look like he threw it at all it just looked like he wasn’t as fast/furious as JMac and Van. And since it was exactly the type of comp he was supposed to be good at he claimed or convinced himself that he threw it after the fact.

      • Personally, I think he tried to win, just not hard enough. And I don’t see that the same as throwing. Maybe he meant it more in a “I threw away an opportunity” way rather than actually throwing the comp.
        But that’s just the impression I got.

      • Yea diary rooms aren’t recorded in advance then they would know the comp already and what they were gonna do they aren’t psychic lol someone either lied or they really believe that and just don’t know any better lol

    • He says he did. He took too long to put in his answer when he knew what it was! I think he choked instead of throwing it!

    • I thought he threw it. He was just standing there by the buzzer, acting confused. We wasn’t even standing by the clock where you’d need to be to input your guess. Then he balled like a baby to himself later. Since no one was around, what would be his motivation for lying to feedsters at that point? It only makes him look like a complete moron. I say he threw it, which is crazy!!!

      • He hadn’t meant to throw it to Van per se. He was hoping JMac would beat her when he stalled. He didn’t know at the time who he was throwing it to, though. He could have won that comp, plain and simple and beaten her!

      • That’s what I thought, but then someone in another thread here said that he wasn’t alone in the room. I haven’t seen the footage.

      • I’ve seen the footage I watch live feeds and he was alone in the room crying and telling his mom he was sorry he couldn’t beat van in f2 he didn’t throw the comp he forgot about Meg being nom’ed the very first week so his answer was high by 30 days

    • I’d say he threw it. Not only did he admit to it and cry about it forever, but also in the video it seemed obvious he threw it. C’mon Steve. i’ve seen the same act in other competitions. By now you should be able to tell when he’s throwing. Also- I will add- that he might have been throwing it to whoever was left, not just Vanessa, hoping for John to win. I think it comes down to him being a chicken, and wanting someone else to have to make that choice, because he was already safe.

    • On the live feeds he said he did started crying the whole nine yards but I personally day no he didn’t throw it because he was actually trying he just forgot that meh was nominated first week so it threw his days off I mean Steve isn’t a good actor or liar so there’s no way he threw that comp

  1. As much as I don’t like a lot of things about her in the game, I think that Vanessa is really way above both Steve and Liz game wise…

      • It’s a shame casting is not like the Canada version…hardly anyone is recruited…in the American version…almost everyone is recruited…

      • Also, I would just like to say that whatshisname … the brother of the famous singer … totally stole that whole glitter thing from Gary.

      • 10 were recruits Liz, Vanessa, Julia, Meg, Jackie, Becky, Clay, Audrey, Jeff, and Jace. DaVonne, Jason, Shelli, James, Austin, Steve, and John are all fans who applied the usual way. From what I know about where they are from Liz and Julia applied for a twins show and were moved to big brother. Vanessa from her poker was found to fill the strong strategic player of the season. Meg was just a waitress that one of the casting people liked. Jackie and Jeff obviously from the amazing race. Becky from tinder. Clay from the Lakers game. Audrey as a transgender house guest as trangender people have been a very big story with Caitlin Jenner. Jace not sure where he was found or why.

      • No problem I thought it was 11 for a while until I looked into it a little more. 10 or 11 it really doesn’t matter it is a lot of recruits.

      • I knew Austin has applied before, but I read somewhere that Audrey was recruited for this season and it made sense. I could certainly be wrong though.

      • She may not have applied this year, but she had applied in the previous season, unlike some of the other recruits!

      • Audrey wasn’t a recruit. Shelli was. Vanessa claims she applied for amazing race and then survivor/bb but I don’t know that I believe her. She didn’t have much BB history knowledge. Probably just applied for amazing race and got recruited for bb instead.

      • She did say she’s watched BB since Season 10, so who really knows? Watching and playing it are two different things as we’ve come to know! BB consists of knowing who your opponent is…she really didn’t do that! She was pre-occupied with someone who didn’t know anything at all about Big Brother and she wasn’t coaching him all that much either because he wouldn’t understand what she said anyway! LOLOL

      • I thought Audrey was a recruit because I had read she was and it made sense, but I was wrong. Shelli applied and is actually a fan although I thought she was a recruit at first. Vanessa was 100% a recruit. She seems to be like Clay who was recruited and then just watched a bunch of seasons really fast to claim they are a fan.

      • Shelli is one of those recruits approached to play that claims she was a fan of the show yet had almost no knowledge of how it worked.

      • I believe it was 10 Liz, Vanessa, Julia, Meg, Jackie, Becky, Clay, Audrey, Jeff, and Jace. Could have one wrong though.

      • No two ways about that!! Regardless of alliances, if she’d been playing against More fans, we wouldn’t even have to be worrying about Her Craziness winning the whole thing! Even better – LET them cast her on an All Star season & ALL of you would hear me laughing when she’s the FIRST to go!!

      • Are you kidding me? The 1st time she says the word deal or her Word or starts getting that Crazy Train look (you know the one and so does everyone else now) they’ll kick her ass to the curb and dance as she leaves.

      • Van played a big part in that one…Shelli was on the fence about it, but allowed Van to convince her in how much fun it would be if they did. With Shelli being a twin herself, that is what helped in her agreeing to it. Van knew where Shelli’s weakness lied at that time and capitalized on it. LOL

      • that’s what I didn’t understand about some of the fans’ game (Shelli), if a showmance is a problem, then why couldn’t they see a problem with showmance plus 1 ???? no logic there – they voted as 3 after Julia entered.

      • Because Liz and Austin’s showmance hadn’t really developed yet til after Shelli and Clay were gone. They kept it under wraps til then.

      • That’s why I blame Shelli and Clay for this crap season. They let Van run their game and let in the twins. Then Shelli was too stupid not to put on her big girl pants and go to the Goblins and say James I’m coming after you but not until Van Austwuss and at least one twin is gone. If Shelli had done that she might be sitting in the F3

      • I agree with everything you said. That is why Van is there instead of Shelli. Some people blame that on James, but It is Shelli’s fault for making the HOH at the time of her demise, James, feel more threatened by her. She paid for that big time and James did the smartest thing possible for his game.

      • James was only able to go off how Shelli and Clay reacted to evicting Jason when he and Meg confronted Shelli and Clay about it…he didn’t know Van had a big hand in that either and Shelli was afraid to admit that to him and Meg at the time it needed to be said or she’d have shown her and Clay’s cards of playing both sides of the house.

      • Again this hot mess of a season is Shelli/Clay’s fault. They knew Aud was a pathological liar but evicted Da instead. They let Van convince them that Twins would be fun. It was Shelli who told Van she had to keep Austwuss to keep the numbers so broke their alliance with Jason/Meg/James. And I will continue to repeat that after Clay left Shelli should have put on her Big Girl Pants and spilled the beans to the Goblins and made a deal with James not to go after him until Van, Austwuss and at least 1 twin were gone. If Shelli had acted like a 33 year old woman instead of an entitled Sorority Princess who obviously has a “Thing” for her twin brother, she could have won the game.

      • I agree, I don’t like her in the game, but people that play the game lie, manipulate etc and are going to come across as terrible people…

      • You’re right, but some people seem to believe that that’s how that person is outside of the house. I’m pretty sure that Dan is not as much of a mastermind out of the house as he was in the house. That’s the thing, you have to find a way to play the game.

      • Dan is not as much of a mastermind as he was a strategist…you have to be a strategist when you coach football!

      • Some people regard him as a mastermind.
        I can see Vanessa being a mastermind in this game because she clearly was the puppeteer.
        She is extremely persuasive. She is also a strategist. She is also an effective manipulator.

      • She was definitely great at damage control and problem solving more so than a strategist. She played week to week, not looking at the long-term at the time she made that decision. Take for instance, she did not count on JMac winning that Veto…she had no plan B to fall back on with that possibility. A true strategist would have! Thus had to regroup (damage control) and choose a different game play, (problem solving) to cover up that error in judgement. No doubt about her being an effective manipulator through out!

      • I dont mind the lying, the scheming. What I despise is the tears and the victim card. There is no honor in that.

      • The tears and the victim card are part of her strategy. Why can’t people see that? Audrey played the victim as well. That was strategy.
        In her season, Rachel played the victim a lot.

      • Nobody is doubting that is part of her strategy. But, it is simply dishonorable behavior. I think it is dishonorable in all the cases you referred to above. It is these dynamic which are tearing our country apart. They are not okay.

      • I don’t think it as much that they lie and manipulate as it is how they do it. Dr. Will lied and manipulated far more than Vanessa. But he was fun, likeable, and let us know what he was doing. He never seemed lost in the game as Vanessa is. No matter if she is around others, by herself, or in the DR she stayed in her character. Will was lying manipulating evil Dr. Will around others, by himself he was fun goofy lovable Dr. Will, and in the DR he was Will Kirby. The way he went about it was different. Although Vanessa is not as smart as Will there are only about 100 or so people in the US that are. Kind of funny seeing his personality. You would think she would be smart enough to realize this.

      • She never watched other BB seasons to apply that kind of smart manipulation. Wished she had! But to say she wasn’t smart enough…I think she is, she just didn’t approach it the same way as he had!

      • Exactly. A terrible human being is a person who kills for the fun of it. A terrible human being is a person who steals for the fun of it. A terrible human being is a person who molests younger people for the fun of it.
        …you get the point.
        Vanessa is an amazing person. For now, she’s just playing a ‘game,’

      • Nope. I dont agree. We saw an honorable game last year from Derrick. He was brilliant. But, he didnt play the victim. He didnt cry or throw a tantrum. Vanessa was an emotional child a lot of this season. Despicable.

      • That was his way of playing the game. Doesn’t make Vanessa’s game any less effective. She got her way a majority of the time. That’s extremely effective.
        Crying and throwing tantrums, Rachel did that…and she won. It’s not against the rule to cry or to throw tantrums, sorry.

      • It’s not about strategy it’s about the fact that she is playing a game. Everyone this season is playing a game. So why is Vanessa is a terrible human being for playing Big Brother?

      • She’s over playing, granted that’s better than Steve who didn’t play the game at all, but it’s not an honorable way to succeed in life. Yes it’s a game but she didn’t become that type of person overnight for a game. She’s a disgusting vile person and all this season taught viewers and future players was to bully people into doing what you’ll want and you’ll be rewarded and when people question you then lie like there’s no tomorrow and you’ll be rewarded more. If that’s what you find enjoyable to watch then that’s your prerogative. I don’t want to see a house full of Vanessa’s next year, she absolutely ruined the show.

      • Has ‘over playing’ the game hurt her, though? No! She’s still in the freaking house!
        How is she disgusting and vile just because she lied and manipulated people in a game where that IS allowed? Do you have proof that she’s ‘disgusting’ and ‘vile’ outside of the house?
        If you think that Vanessa is disgusting and vile, you obviously have never heard of Ted Bundy or Charles Manson.

      • Jasmine, come on. Ted Bundy and Charles Manson are associated with serial killings, and have nothing to do with Big Brother. Maybe try Googling some of the people who have played poker with Vanessa and read some of the unflattering things they have to say about her.

      • They probably only say stuff like that because they are bitter. But seriously, you can’t just take their word for it.
        I brought up Ted Bundy and Charles Manson for a reason. Crystal Nicole said Vanessa was a disgusting and vile HUMAN being.
        Really? Seriously?! The two serial killers that I mentioned are disgusting and vile. I was just trying to put it into perspective.

      • They are more disgusting and vile then her obviously, way more, but that doesn’t mean she can’t be. Most of the player that said those things are not bitter. Most are far better players than her. They are normally responses to how she acts after she loses because she acts like a child. If she loses this game too it will be interesting to see how she reacts.

      • Well, she’s not disgusting and vile to me.
        So, she acts like a child sometimes?
        Give her a break. We all act immature at times, whether we want to admit it or not.
        That’s no reason to write Vanessa off as only ‘that’ person. Clearly, she’s not just ‘that’ person.

      • Apparently it is not just sometimes. It is pretty often when she loses. She also doesn’t just get mad and leave. That would make sense if I lose I get mad. However, she will insult players, insult workers at the tournament, blame the rules for being unfair just a lot of childish stuff and although I don’t want to say it bullying.

      • I would give anything for Liz and Steve to kick her to the curb at F2. Her reaction to that would be worth the price of admission. It probably won’t happen, though.

      • Steve would first have to find his balls! Sorry, my bad! He just tends to chicken out at the last second. LOLOL

      • Are you like 16 or something because you honesty sound like naive. Regardless what you think the way a person acts on a show is the same they act is untelevised life. She didn’t flip a switch 100 days ago and become a lying bitch, that’s who she is and I’m sorry if that’s killing your lady boner for her. She doesn’t deserve to win. Look at the past two winners Derrick and Andy, neither of them had to stoop to her level to win. It doesn’t pay off and it makes people hate you. This could have been a fun experience for her than she made good memories and friends with, no one will want to talk to her after seeing the show plus she made herself miserable by over playing constantly when it wasn’t needed.

      • I’m not naive at all. And no, I’m not 16. I see this game for what it is…a GAME.
        Yes, Vanessa does lie a lot, she does manipulate people a lot. She IS a poker player, for goodness sake! Using her poker-playing skills have helped her in the game.

      • I’m not saying they didn’t in the sense her poker mind knew numbers and probabilities well but that’s the extent of her poker application.

      • Derrick is a good example, but when you want people on your side I don’t know if I would compliment Andy. Haha.

      • Really? I personally believe Andy played a great game with the season he was dealt. That was an awful cast.

      • I thought he played a good game and I personally have nothing against him. Much better he win than some of the others. However he is generally considered a disliked player.

      • Wow really? That cast had so many hateable players I never knew he was unliked. Don’t get me wrong I was pulling for Judd or Howard but Andy was never someone I didn’t like to watch. My favorite player of all time though is Ragan and he was a spitfire.

      • He is, but not as much as some of the others obviously. I personally am a Will guy, but Regan was great would love to see him again.

      • I would like an All Star season as well, but Julie has been completely against it for seasons now. Maybe since CBS is disapointed in this cast they will have one because it is less risk. They already know the players and how they will perform. However on Evel Dicks dick at night series he claimed that it is unlikely because 13 and 14 were basically the all star season with 6 and then 4 returning house guests.

      • Eh I guess but a full cast would be great, I don’t understand why CBS is against it? It’s so entertaining and no floaters! I want a winners season! Then again some floaters have won but at least they were enjoyable to watch.

      • Producers claimed this season not enough *qualified* candidates applied. I say, BS. Why would they think recruits were more qualified than actual fans?

      • From what what season were you watching this you you idiot. If you watched from about Season 2 to Season 13 thats how most of the winners played. The only vile and evil person to win IS Evel Dick. Thats that. But he was good. Its why they picked him to win. No matter how she got what she wanted. They cant deny the fact that Vanessa got in their heads is a very good player at what she does. Don’t say shes evil and vile. Tons of people act like that on TV. I don’t think you can act the same when you there is a bunch of people watching you on camera practically 24/7. She is not vile she’s smart. She played the game well and she deserves to win. Its as straight forward as that. If you can’t realize that your an absolute IDIOT. She’s smart. Manipulative. And cry’s a lot yah. But you can’t deny that if she didn’t do most of that. She would have been evicted and she wasn’t. Big Brother is about being evil and sketchy. Its about lying and manipulating people to your advantage. Even if she has money already. She played it smart and deserves more for it. If you really think she shouldn’t get payed or that she should’ve been kicked off the show or something. That’s your problem. Complain to CBS or something. You aren’t supposed to play nice and friendly in Big Brother. That’s not the idea of the game. You should go re-watch some seasons and maybe that will click in you. Straight up Vanessa is definitely the most deserving winner. Deal with it.

      • And it’s absurd to call Vanessa a disgusting and vile person when there are serial killers who ARE actually disgusting and vile. Just putting it into perspective.

      • How is she a vile person for playing the game? Because she overplays it? I guess Audrey is a vile person too. You don’t even know Vanessa to call her a vile person, none of us do. You are hating on someone for playing a game. Lying is part of the game, manipulation is part of the game, they all have to do what is best in order to win Big Brother. I get you may not like Vanessa but to say she is a vile person makes no sense what so ever, and if that is the case than every single Big Brother player is a vile person.

      • Oh yes, Donny is such a vile human being, Jordan too, oh and Derrick, and Andy, and Hayden, all so vile. Wake up and realize what Vanessa was going to people was overkill and nothing less than vile.

      • If Vanessa is a recruit, she sure did play a good game for simply being a recruit and not a Big Brother fanatic like Steve (who played a far less effective game.)

      • Newsflash, you can lie and manipulate occasionally and not get haters, there’s a reason the vast vast majority of American can’t stand Vanessa. Sorry to kill the massive boner you have for her.

      • He was too good a player to. He knew that it could come back to haunt him as it may to Vanessa. He was also a crazy super fan where Vanessa was a recruit.

      • Let’s just say we agree to disagree. I saw several occasions where she berated hgs…that is a form of humiliation, pointing out their flaws but not admitting to her own at the time.

      • I said they were. They may never have seen it as such and admitted to it. That’s why I said it’s better we agree to disagree…I’m not going to point out how, when and to whom she did this, would take too long. She didn’t do it often, but she did do that. She did it to Meg, James, Clay, JMac and more so Steve. You’d have to have watched BBAD or the live feeds to see it as it was never aired on t.v.

      • Vanessa and Derrick are both human beings. “OMG YOU COMPARED DERRICK TO VANESSA”

        That’s how stupid you look right now. I’m not comparing their games. I’m pointing out that Vanessa didn’t bully anyone anymore than Derrick did.

      • You’re the stupid one. I didn’t compare the two. I said Derrick didn’t bully people. YOU said if Vanessa is a bully then Derrick is one. Once again there’s NO comparison. And that’s what you are doing.

      • God, you’re clueless. I REPLIED to someone that called Vanessa a vile bully while excusing Derrick. I pointed out that Derrick also lied and manipulated. Go take it up with her, you idiot.

        Vanessa is annoying as hell. Vanessa is not a bully. Now how about you f off?

      • I think you need a reality check! Lying and manipulating are completely different than bullying someone. Maybe you don’t get that since you sound like a bully yourself.

      • The idiocy continues.

        THAT WAS MY ENTIRE POINT. NEITHER OF THEM ARE BULLIES.

        You’re such a fucking idiot.

      • Vanessa is a bully and don’t you read? You need to watch your language. profanity is not allowed on this site. I believe you’re the idiot because my entire point from the beginning is Vanessa is a bully and Derrick is not. But obviously you don’t get my point. From your angry, hostile comments you sound like you’re also a bully. Maybe you ought to get some help and stay away from these sites if they are going to make you so angry. But I’m done replying to an idiot with anger issues.

      • That’s what I’m trying to get her to see. Clearly, she doesn’t get it. She needs to watch the Investigation Discovery channel and then she’ll see what disgusting and vile truly is.

      • No, that didn’t make her a horrible person. She was a horrible person before she walked in the door. Leopards don’t change their spots. (Check out how some of her poker-playing associates feel about her and her tantrums when she loses.)

      • Well, perhaps she is a sore loser. But that doesn’t make her a bad person…not at all. A lot of people are sore losers, doesn’t make them bad people.

      • Sorry, I just don’t see it. No sense in beating a dead horse.
        To me, she seems like an extremely nice, kind, and loving person.

      • She’s just not sweet…she admitted that. She claims she’s kindhearted, just not sweet. She has an attorney’s mind! Not my opinion, that came directly from the horse’s mouth!

      • Would you want to watch next season if it were a house full of Vanessa’s? No, that would be absolutely miserable, and it’s because of her PERSONality.

      • I would. That would be good TV! People who say they wouldn’t want a season with many personalities like Vanessa’s, they are lying. That would be such a dramatic season, and people love drama.

      • You’ve got to be lying right now, that would be worse than watching Jerry Springer. Not everyone likes to watch drama in the sense of nonstop crying over imaginary situations and nonstop lying. I don’t think Vanessa is even having fun.

      • Exactly! Maybe I’m just a bit too old for the drama to some extent…but yet I still come back for more because it’s more their drama going on and doesn’t reflect upon me since I’m not involved or a participant in it! I’m just an objective observer! LOLOL

      • Yelling at people doesn’t make you a bully. I get that he may have felt bullied but I didn’t see any bullying.

      • No one is bullied unless they feel bullied. JMac is the only HG that has admitted to feeling bullied that I know of. Regardless of what you or I say or feel, whether Vanessa has bullied at any other time, that is not your or my decision to make. It is our opinion. But as far as JMac, that’s a fact. Your second statement completely disregards JMac’s feelings, You are a prime example of why bullying is so prominent. You have refused to acknowledge JMac was bullied even though he stated he was. Why is that so hard for you?

      • I’m not disregarding his feelings, I am going based on what I saw. He say he may have felt bullied but I am stating what I saw during that situation. All Vanessa did was ask John for information, it may have been a little aggressive. But I don’t necessarily think it was bullying. People can say things but we all may have a different view on that situation. Also don’t blame bullying on me or even call me a bully, this is the third time you have done this. If you don’t like what I have to say, than ignore me and don’t comment simple as that. I am just stating my view on that situation.

      • What you can’t seem to comprehend is that what you think about the Vanessa/JMac convo does in no way change the fact that JMac “felt” bullied. By stating that no one was bullied, you are absolutely supporting the bullying tactics and disregarding JMac. You have the same choice of not responding to me, Joey. Show proof of three times that I called you a bully. Until then, I say you are full of BS.

      • For the millionth time, I get that Jmac felt bullied but from what I saw I don’t think there was any bullying. He is allowed to have that feeling, I am not disregarding his feelings. We all have a different definition of what bullying is, just because I disagree with your definition does NOT make me a bully or support bullying. Can you comprehend that? Also if you want proof just scroll down your notifications of you implying that I am a bully just because I don’t agree with you.

      • Golly do you do some exaggeration! Who forced you to reply for the “millionth time”? It doesn’t matter if you say it a million more. You have a problem accepting the fact that your opinion doesn’t matter and you have no control over the FACTS. Fact wins over opinion, Joey. Neither of our opinions figure into this equation. It’s obvious it kills you not being able to win this argument, but you lose. Vanessa bullied JMac because he felt like she did. And it still doesn’t matter what you think or thought you saw or what I think. I’m waiting on 1,000,001. lol

      • My opinion, your opinion, and everyone’s opinion matters. We all are viewing this show so we are entitled to our own opinion. There is nothing here that tells us that our opinion doesn’t matter. Based on my opinion and my definition of bullying, I haven’t seen Vanessa bully anyone. I am not disregarding John’s feelings, he is allowed to feel that way, but I am just stating my opinion on that matter. You are just discounting my opinion because you don’t like Vanessa.

      • Not when it comes to someone feeling bullied. You have to be a female or a very feminine male since you have to TRY to get the last word all the time even when you know you are wrong.

      • Just letting you know that neither of our opinions change the fact that Vanessa bullied JMac, according to JMac. You stating that she didn’t bully anyone for the 1,000,002 time(lol), is a lie. It’s not our decision to make. It’s JMac’s and you weren’t there, so it doesn’t matter how YOU feel.

      • But I still have a right as a viewer of the show to voice my opinion on that situation. John may have felt bullied and I am not taking that away from him, but based on my view of bullying I don’t think John was bullied. You are just trying to disregard my opinion because you don’t like Vanessa, which is understandable, but to disregard my opinion because you don’t want people defending Vanessa and than start implying that I am a bully or support bullying is immature.

      • Everyone seems to dislike her for playing the game and her strategy, like it or not, got her to final 3!! She is the only one who played and kept playing through all their drama and all their nonsense-the game was her goal and she did it! She is the only one who deserves to win. Liz just got lucky. I want the F2 to be Van and Steve. Van wins!

    • I agree. I absolutely loathe Vanessa but if it’s her and Steve I have to pick her bc he’s the absolutely worst player of all time.

      • The worst player of all time? I don’t think so. The worst player of all time does not usually make it to F3. This season, that honor I might suggest would go to Meg.

      • He didn’t play the game though, he didn’t play a game at all, he did whatever vanessa said for him to do. As much as Meg is a bimbo she played her own game.

      • But it helped him make it to the final 3 didn’t it? Sometimes, you have to give in to what other people want, otherwise you might be evicted sooner. Like it or not. Believe it or not. But THAT is strategy. If it helps your game, it’s strategy. And clearly, it helped Steve’s game.

      • He made it to the final 3! How is that advancing one week? He survived WEEKS in this game! He’s playing the game!

      • Not really…she, too, played Van’s game! She really had no choice but to because she couldn’t win any of the comps to refute it.

      • She was never HOH so it’s hard to say she really played but she didn’t always vote with the house, which I love. I hate unanimous voting but I understand why people won’t want I be the odd ones out its just so frustrating.

      • You’re full of dumb statements today. Steve is nowhere near the worst to ever play. Seriously, go look through the list of players.

      • He isn’t even a player. He didn’t nothing for the game, or his game which didn’t exist. He did anything and everything Vanessa told him to do. He shouldn’t even be considered a player.

      • I think he is a bad player, but he is not even the worst this season not to even consider someone like Lawon or Kaysar.

      • Who worse this season? It’s not fair to say Jace when he wasn’t there long enough to show his strategy or lackthereof in Steve’s case.

      • Lol, obviously. I’m waiting for someone to say a contestant worse than Steve this season. Unless he takes Liz to F2, if he has the opportunity that is, he hasn’t even played his own game therefore is the worst player.

      • I would argue that Audrey and Clay were worse. Overplaying and then quitting the game I see as worse than Steve’s play. He has been bad, but not that bad.

      • I think if Clay were beside anyone else he would have lasted a lot longer, a lot longer, but he crumbled being next to Shelli. I consider Clay’s eviction to be honorable, he didn’t bad mouth anyone and he left quietly because the money wasn’t worth it. Audrey is just a weirdo, I don’t think she wanted to be there so she hid from everyone in hopes of going home plus she was a nutcase, I will agree that Audrey was the worst player this season.

      • Saying and doing are two different things, for sure. He may not have wanted to do what Vanessa wanted him to, but his actions did, nonetheless, exactly that! hahaha

      • You realize the game isn’t even over yet right? I’m not a fan of the toddler but he is far from worst ever. You must be new.

      • If and only if he wins this HOH, which is slim, and he uses it to take Liz, which is even slimmer, that will be the first and last time he played this game for himself and not Vanessa. And no I’m not new but it’s cute you think that.

      • And he’s the first person to ever do that? I don’t even like Steve, but you’re clueless if you think he’s the worst ever.

      • I agree maybe saying worst ever is a slight extreme but he’s one of the top few. I can’t stand him, he’s a child who doesn’t belong there but I’m hoping he gets the HOH to knock out Vanessa.

  2. At the beginning of the season, I wanted a female to win, no specific one, just a female. Now there are two of them and one male and I hope the guy wins.

    • How can someone want someone who did so little socially win…Steve was terrible socially and only focused on Vanessa and John without doing anything with the others or very little…

      • I don’t feel I need to explain to you what i mean, but talking to very few people and not the others is pretty incomplete…really,he was dragged this far by a person or two…

      • Well, it’s winning comps; it’s watching and listening; it’s waiting for the right moment the player feels it’s time to go for it…and yeah, there’s the social game. But winning only because of that aspect? Nope.

      • With a strong enough social game you will win. Winning comps is extremely overrated. Dr. Will is the perfect example no comps won in 2 seasons, but a fantastic social game. Watching and listening and timing I would place in social game. If you don’t then yes they are a big part.

      • Very strong actually although it doesn’t seem like it at first. Evel Dick has made it known that his favorite house guest was Will Kirby like so many of us. His game was actually very similar to Will’s in season 2. Will went into the game saying he wanted 2 things to happen that he feels can take him to the end. First he wanted to be the first thing on everyone’s mind everyday. Second, he wanted to be absolutely hated by all of the other house guests he even let them know that’s what he was doing. I still remember Nicole losing it when he told her. If he is hated by everyone then everyone will take him to the end. It also ties in with him throwing every comp. He could have won any mental comp he wanted he is far and away the smartest person to ever play big brother. He wanted to make it seem like he was the easiest to beat in final 2. Dick took pretty much that exact social strategy other than throwing every comp. He wanted to be the first thing on everyone’s mind and be hated, so that he would seem like an easy win in final 2. He just mimicked Will to more of an extreme. Although it is easier because Will is completely different outside of the house and Dick is similar to his in house character. In the end he was able to make it although by his own final 3 comp win not being brought. Many people would criticize the “everyone hate me” strategy as a poor social game, but in big brother it has never lost. 2-0.

      • I never said it was the only aspect…I said it was the most important…. And Vanessa did all these aspects eay better than Steve…

      • Easily the most important. I would argue with a strong enough social game (it would have to be absurdly good) no other aspect matter. It is the only aspect that can completely win you the game.

      • OK…lol. I happen to disagree—but that’s what’s wonderful about our wonderful community here…we can disagree. So, can you and I agree to disagree? :)

      • Certainly plenty of ways to win the game and strategies to take, but just for my own interest. What do you think is the most important aspect of the game to excel at?

      • That’s a great question, Bill. I’m not sure I can answer it though…I’d have to actually BE in the house and see what would be best. I’ve seen almost all seasons, and I’ve seen many different strategies. It’s hard to know unless I was actually playing. Certainly the social aspect IS important. Can’t argue that. I just think that it’s a combo…winning comps; watching and listening; making your move when the time is right—and yes, playing a social game. Sorry—I can’t answer it better than that.

      • This is interesting … what exactly would the best combination be? Social is important, but so is winning. I can see a need to be good at compartmentalizing – when you’re sitting around chatting or eating, be sociable. When competition time comes around, block all your social involvements and compete to win. Then, once you’ve done the best you can (win or lose), go back to being social. It seems like commingling all the aspects of the game is where problems come up. Wow. Good question.

      • I am going to re ask this question at the top of the comments with my answer because I think it is a really interesting question to ask especially at this point in the game as we have seen how their strategy has progressed and adapted over the 100 days

      • That’s fine. Like you I have seen every season besides season 1. Even though I was only 8 at the time. I have seen parts, but not the whole thing. Players all use different strategies and each one is different. Even returning players strategies can be vastly different from their previous strategy. However no matter the season making a connection with the other house guests seems to be the most important to me. By connecting with them it allows them to trust you and look for your input on what to do. The other stuff is important. Watching and listening is extremely important, but I think that relates to connecting. Timing is a huge part of the game and we have seen the mistakes this season. Winning comps I don’t put too much importance into. They can help or hurt depending on your overall strategy. But making a connection is the most important. That is why every season part 3 of the final HOH is finish this statement. How well do you know your house guests. Because your relationship with the other house guests is ultimately what will win you or lose you the game

      • Winning is also a very important part of the game. Prime example is the season Rachel won. Her social game sucked and she had to win many times when her butt was on the line.

      • Definitely a combination of all of them, but when implementing game-plays, it’s best you are also well-liked so you can hide the manipulation better, rather than painting a bigger target on yourself. :-)

      • Oh I understand totally what you meant. I just think he played well enough to make it to the end. Steve didn’t really start playing until 3/4 of the way through the season. So, in that sense, you’re absolutely right—it was incomplete.

      • Be careful Mr Chow. I said something similar to Firefox the other day and was subjected to a full on character assassination. :-)

      • I think saying you would never reward a bully is fine. But there are people on here that have said they don’t like that the players were not all honest to each other. That person shouldn’t watch the show.

      • Thanks, Bill. I agree that no one would be a good HG if they weren’t able to be a little dishonest, disloyalty, and manipulative. That is the nature of BB. But I will never agree that anyone should go as far as using bullying tactics in their strategy.

      • You see bullying. Some people don’t, like me. In the end, her aggression IS strategy.
        Evel Dick was worse than her. Rachel was worse than her!

      • Jasmine, you are also aggressive in your comments. Are you a bully? That just happens to be part of the definition of being a bully.

      • Oh my God, K…don’t start with the ‘bully’ stuff! We know she played her game by intimidation and bullying tactics, but we’re not allowed to that opinion.

      • If Jasmine has an itch, I’ll scratch it for her. I know she seems a little on the immature side, so I might take it easy on her since I am an old lady. hehe

      • Of course I’m immature. I’ll wear my immaturity with pride. After all, I’m 21.
        But I’m not immature because I like Vanessa.
        To you, I’m immature because I don’t see what Vanessa’s tactics as bullying. I’m only immature if I don’t agree with you and I make it known. That’s good to know.

      • My granddaughter is 15 and seems more mature with her words. Immaturity at 21 is nothing to be bragging about or proud of. It’s a huge problem with our society.

      • I’m talking ‘immaturity’ as having a young mind. It’s normal to be immature. Young people make rash decisions, sometimes they don’t think things through. But at some point, you grow out of it. There is no certain age limit when it comes to immaturity. But most 21-year olds are immature.
        I have to give myself a little credit, I’m not out there behaving like a hooligan. I mean that I don’t drink, I don’t smoke, I’ve never done drugs. I’ve never done the ‘deed.’ I make A’s and B’s in college. The first ever job I’ve had, I’ve KEPT.
        Compared to most young people, I’m doing fine.
        And I assure you, I have very good diction. Perhaps you don’t see it on THIS board, but that is because I want to comment casually and in more of a conversational tone.

      • You seem to protest too much, very much like Vanessa. You have definitions “in your mind” that suit your need to defend your actions.

      • And you seem to protest too much AGAINST Vanessa. Just because I don’t agree with you doesn’t mean I’m immature. I’ve never called you immature. But we are allowed to voice our opinions just like you have been doing and just like I have been doing.
        Despite how much I disagree with your views about Vanessa, believe it or not, I do respect your views.

      • Your 21 I think you are mature and respect peoples views. Just as I respect yours although I disagree with them. It would be a boring comment board if everyone agreed. It would also be odd for me to call you immature as I am only 23.

      • I agree with you that it would be boring if we all liked/disliked the same people.
        Vanessa is a fascinating character. She’s very polarizing, obviously. But she is the most talked about player this season. She’s doing something right!

      • You called yourself immature, Jasmine. What I hear when I read your words, is a bratty child that is use to getting their way all the time. That’s my impression. And what I hear when Vanessa is speaking down to people, is bullying. Last I had my ears checked, I had 20/20 hearing. LOL

      • There you go with that condescending tone of yours. You implied that I was immature in your posts. If you think I’m an idiot, I can show you the exact post.

      • Did you call yourself immature, and more than once? The answer is yes, and on that one thing, I agree with you, wholeheartedly. Are you upset that we finally agree on something? You like to dish, but it seems hard for you to take. If you don’t like what I am saying, stop your whining to me.

      • I’m not sure about your diction, but I can see it in this board you like to talk……Can you shorten your comment a little. bit ……no?……..yes? lol

      • No, Cyril’s not being condescending. Cyril’s not patronizing me, thinking he (I’m assuming) is better than me. KSJB, you do that alot. Like for instance, saying I’m immature because I don’t see Vanessa as a bully.

      • Does that bother you that I took the words right out of your mouth? Today is not the first time that you have referred to yourself as immature. And you think it is because you “don’t see Vanessa as a bully”. You know better. Why would you outright lie about that? I’m still scratching that itch for you. We’ll call it Vanessa Ivy for now. Wonder if that’s her middle name? lol

      • There is nothing wrong with being aggressive in this game! I could say you (KSJB) were aggressive too, but you don’t think you are, do you?
        No, I’m not a bully. I have been bullied before, though. Coming from somebody who has been bullied, I don’t see Vanessa as one. It does irk me a little that people keep calling her a bully. That’s a strong word. She does play aggressively, but she’s not a bully.
        But, in my defense and in your defense, I think it really comes down to how people see ‘bullying.’

      • OK Jasmine, let’s just say V isn’t a bully. She played a despicable game. Is she going to win? Probably. But I would much rather see a player use their mind and intelligence to win the game. She used intimidation. She lied, broke promises, etc…and many have won that way. She brow-beat the other players. Things she’s said to the other HG’s have been assaults on their self esteem. I personally find it offensive. Give me a chess player…give me a Derrick. Even give me Dan Gheesling! But I’ll always stand by the fact that she is a bully.

      • She HAS used her mind and intelligence! WHAT are you talking about?
        Being able to persuade people numerous times IS intelligent.
        I don’t think she’s brought anyone’s self esteem down. Steve already has low self-esteem. You can’t blame that on Vanessa.
        Vanessa’s a very positive person. I remember when Jace was on the block. He was feeling down and out. Vanessa gave him numerous pep talks. She actually gave him tons of useful advice to help him feel better. You have to go back to that moment on the live feeds. It was a good moment. Vanessa is a good person. She’s playing the game aggressively, yes, I can admit that. But it is by no means ‘despicable.’

      • OK, darlin’…lol! I just have to disagree. I had someone in my life who was EXTREMELY intelligent and charismatic. Brilliant person. He used his incredible smarts to break me down with his oh-so-clever and inspired words. Vanessa knows how to build someone up—just to knock them down. Steve may have already had low self-esteem, but believe me…she exploited it and she KNEW EXACTLY what she was doing. I never had a problem with self worth, with self esteem, with the ability to love myself—until I met MY Vanessa. The incredibly smart and intelligent person who was able to persuade me with his brilliant mind. And now, my dear, that’s all the time I’m ever going to spend talking about that woman. Have a good day, sweetie.

      • Jasmine, I’ve no doubt that she’ll win. And I in no way was being sarcastic when I called you ‘sweetie’. If that’s what you got out that post…well, whatev. I do love your passion about Vanessa. If I ever needed anyone in my court—you’d be the one to have. Now, really and truly—have a good day! :)

      • I agree people are all upset because Vanessa got their favorites evicted. Even the jury has said that she played an incredible game. Which she did.

      • I remember I got bullied in school when I was a kid for only 15 mins. I beat the crap out of him. Gave him two black eyes. The bullying stopped but I got kicked out of school. lol

      • Ahahahahaha, now that I will never be convinced of as I, too, went to Catholic school but never claimed to be an angel! You’re funny! :-)

      • She will always be seen and known as a bully by masses of people no matter what you say, Jasmine. JMac told her he felt bullied by her. That absolutely makes her a bully. You can not ever take that away from this season. If you have truly been bullied, that’s a shame, but all the more reason that you should see this from JMac’s point of view and stop trying to defend Vanessa. You really should be ashamed of yourself. Still itching? I got more and a few more minutes.

      • Oh, I hesitate to wade in here, but here I go. Bullying in the game of Big Brother has to be read completely separately from bullying in life. They just aren’t the same thing. The game of BB is like an incubator that fosters a culture of manipulation. That’s just the name of the game. I absolutely do not condone bullying, but bullying in life. Big Brother is not life. However, I am with K on the maturity thing. I would hope that our younger generations mature quite a bit before hitting 20. That is rather old to be immature. On the other hand, I get that Jasmine was probably feeling a bit on the defensive at the moment. Just my two cents. Sigh. Bring on the hate if y’all feel the need.

      • Seriously, I don’t mean immature in the most literal sense of the word. I am mature in some aspects of my life…whereas in other aspects, I’m immature.
        Same goes for you and for anybody else. We are all imperfect. Older people can be immature as well, it’s not just limited to one generation.

      • Have to take KSJB’s side here many see her as one including me. I see it as ok to do in the house, but it is still bullying.

      • I read a TON of comments, the one person that I’m constantly seeing call Vanessa a bully is KSJB.
        “She’s a bully. She’s a bully. She’s a bully.”

      • You are clearly going to refuse to see it…but right in that post, you were condescending. You are doing the same things that you are constantly calling Vanessa out for.

      • Because I was bullied, I can recognize them a mile away. Two of my bullies wrote an oral book report on me without ever having interviewed me. Because of that mistake they got more than a few facts wrong. The teacher allowed them to continue to vocalize it (even though she gave them an “F” at the end), but I was thoroughly and completely humiliated in the classroom by them. Those are the ones I paid back in home-ec class and because they didn’t see or find out from others (see previous explanation I mentioned to why I didn’t look them in the eye when I planned my attacks and what else I didn’t do) they couldn’t prove it was me that did that! :-)

      • Bullies prey on those who they think (for whatever reason) would or could not defend or avenge themselves. I’ve heard stories like your’s before. It’s a shame they never knew. Shame on that teacher!

      • Another reason that helped me recognize why not all teachers should have been teachers if they use bullying tactics or accept others that do. My daughter got a bully for a teacher once. I confronted her about it and told her if she ever used another student’s “mistakes” from those in her current classroom again as an example, I would see to it she got expelled from teaching. My son came in contact with a bully too (in second grade of all times). He played by the book (school policies that were in place) but those teachers that decided not to follow them were confronted by me. I made it a shared experience for them and made sure that bully was never in his class again from then on if she wasn’t going to be made to follow the rules set forth as my son had! :-) The Vice-principal became quite scared of me from then on, while I walked in the school with my head held high. I am and will always be my children’s only advocate until they were old enough to be one themselves! :-) Maybe Vanessa didn’t have that kind of support from her parents.

      • It was JMac. Do you really think he felt bullied. It didn’t seem so to me. He really didn’t care about what Vanessa said at all. And if your not affected by bullying then its not reallly bullying but its more like failed rudeness

      • I am personally ok with bullying. I think any strategy other than physical violence is ok in my book. If you come into the house you should know what you are getting into. However, I would not disagree with someone who says it shouldn’t be allowed. I prefer it is allowed, but it is simply my preference that many others disagree with.

      • I think bullying on a public show could have the same or even worse adverse effect on a person as bullying in every day life. It definitely should never be accepted in any way, shape, or form IMO.

      • I respect that answer. As I said many will disagree with me. To make my point of view clear I am 100% against bullying, however, it is a choice to enter the big brother house. When you do you should be prepared for and accept anything that is going to happen.

      • I’m of the opinion that if you would use bullying tactics while in the BB house, it is part of who you REALLY are. It seems to come naturally for Vanessa, like she has had lots of practice.

      • Well, she is a poker player and a game theorist. Of course some of this stuff (not bullying) comes naturally to her.

      • Too bad there are many who would emulate her and call it simply aggression. I’ve read about her bad, immature behavior while playing poker. One guy on BBN said he has dealt to her and he had nothing good to say regarding her actions as a poker player.

      • Bullying does seem to come naturally to her and I have heard of her bullying others outside the house, but I would certainly not consider myself a bully. If I was in the house I may use high pressure tactics which some would see as bullying on other house guests a little into doing what I want. Nothing extreme and not to the extent she has, but I see it as a strategy. As long as it is being used as a strategy. I would only use it when needed not just to make people feel bad or scared as she seems to do. I would also make it very clear what I am doing in the DR and feeds, so it is known I am doing it as strategy.

      • Right! This is Big Brother. Vanessa is allowed to be aggressive, lie, pressure others, and manipulate people. What did they come on the show for if they weren’t expecting that?

      • Jasmine, honey, I feel your passion about Vanessa. But Now Occupy has the right to say whatever he likes or disrespects about Vanessa—just as YOU have the right to say how much you enjoy Vanessa and her game play. But you have to allow other to have opinions too.

      • Of course, Now Occupy has the right to say whatever he/she wants. That is true.
        The way he/she worded it made it seem like there are facts that prove that Vanessa doesn’t respect the viewers. That’s all I’m saying.
        Yes, I am very passionate about Vanessa.

      • I think she probably respects the viewers, but she is not engaging with them for whatever reason. She doesn’t let them into her game and viewers will not like her for that.

      • Perhaps some viewers won’t like her. But you can’t say that for all viewers. Some people see the game for what it is, a game where you ARE allowed to do whatever it takes – lie, manipulate, act aggressively – to be the last one standing.

      • You can play the game without being a bully. Most winners are enjoyable people to watch. She not only ruined the season but the show entirely with all her “integrity” or lackthereof. 16 seasons was a really good run, I guarantee this finale will have the lowest number of viewers since the beginning and no one wants to watch season 18 now. All of next year’s contestants will mimick her strategy and it’ll be absolutely miserable to watch.

      • It is tough to say. CBS was very dissapointed in this cast, so they will most likely try something different casting wise. Contestants generally try to mimick strategies of recent players they respect which is why you see so many derricks (or trying to be) this season, dans in past seasons, wills in past seasons. Players next year most likely won’t respect her so I assume there will be more trying to mimick Derrick than Vanessa. Sadly most next season have probably not seen Dan play so they won’t mimick him and very few would have seen will.

      • I’m hoping most viewers have the same thoughts of Vanessa I do, she in no way is an honorable player or should be mimicked. It’s very sad that a lot of these players didn’t even watch the show or cram watched before they came. I’m really really hoping season 18 is another all star season, an all winners season, or an all AFP season. Preferable the last, it would be so much fun.

      • If she wins. Then the other houseguests obviously did not feel bullied. They know it was all game. She puts people onthe stop and pressures them.She lies acts aggressive and is very I dont really think that shes gonna care if America boos her. She won a half of a million dollars/. I know I would’t care.Besiddes. MMost of america likes her because they kmnow it was just a part of the game.yah. But if she wins the half a million. there’s nothing we can really say to argue with the fact that she plahyed a good game. They vote for who played the best. And she did. She BRUTALALY FORCED AND BULLIED people to do things for her. And it worked. Whtehr or not you lik it. It worked. She got what she wanted and she made it the final 3.

      • Les Moonves has gone on record (in an interview) saying while each season produces one or two disappointments cast-wise, this season they were disappointed in at least six or seven HGs.

      • Les has made it very clear in interviews as koko explained. There were two question exactly about this cast. His responses were not a good season for casting and normally you have 1 or 2 dissapointments this season we had 6 or 7.

      • It was an article

        this is the link www dot vulture dot com/2015/09/leslie-moonves-on-20-years-at-cbs.html

        There are only 2 very short big brother questions about casting. Probably 1% of the whole thing. The whole article is on his 20 years at CBS.

      • I think CBS was trying to avoid casting those that mimicked those players by recruiting the hgs they did. It seemed to backfire evidently to produce the opposite, something they ordinarily wouldn’t have condoned up front, but hadn’t worded it as such in the rule book. All they had there was that you couldn’t use violence against an hg.

      • She wasn’t a bully…she was lying and manipulating people…. Bullies were like Aaryn and Amanda that spread racist and homophobic comments…those were bullies….she didn’t do that…

      • When one HG (Johnny Mac) turns to another HG (Vanessa) and says “I feel like you’re bullying me,” that makes her a bully, in my book. How many others felt the same way but didn’t have the nerve to call her on it.

      • bul·ly1
        ˈbo͝olē/
        verb
        gerund or present participle: bullying
        use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants.
        “a local man was bullied into helping them”
        synonyms: persecute, oppress, tyrannize, browbeat, harass, torment, intimidate, strong-arm, dominate; More.

      • Brow beat…I just wrote that in a post. She brow beat the other HG’s into submission by attacking their sense of self—their self esteem.

      • Absolutely. That’s why posters have responded to the HGs reaction to her game play as showing abused spouse syndrome. She spent the entire season working on destroying everyone else’s self-esteem and self-confidence.

      • Words can destroy a person’s self worth more than fists. Did she beat up anyone? Not physically, no. But, I’ve been there and I’d rather be hit than be beaten down with words.

      • I hear you. I’ve been there as well, but it took my ex 35 years to do it with me. That was nine years ago. I’m better now. ;-)

      • Oh, Koko…35 years…I’m so sorry. But I’m glad you’re better! You’re an incredibly strong person—don’t EVER forget that! :-)

      • She is like an abusive spouse. One minute they are yelling and demeaning, trying to make the spouse feel worthless and ignorant, the next they are saying how they meant no harm and tell their spouse what they need to hear. It’s sick.

      • She hasn’t attacked anybody’s sense of self. Steve already has low self-esteem! She was the one who kept giving freaking Jace pep talks!

        Steve..he’s going to be alright after this show is over. Do you guys see how he talks in the diary room? Clearly he’s not affected by Vanessa’s ‘bullying’ like you guys seem to think he is.

        And Johnny Mac was a hilarious, crazy man. He was CLEARLY not affected by Vanessa’s ‘browbeating’ as much as you guys think he was.
        I’m sorry, I don’t see her aggression as bullying. Of course, I’m in the minority. But I’ve been in the minority my whole life. I’m used to it.

      • Maybe not seen as a bully, but she definitely berated some when no one else was around unnecessarily. She cornered them where they wouldn’t easily be able to escape just like Jace had done to Steve. Rather than them just walking away, they took it. Because otherwise she’d be back to doing it again later to them. Tell me I was watching a different show…please. Watch what she’d done with Steve, Becky, James, Meg and JMac and tell me she didn’t do that at least.

      • All this season accomplished was telling people it’s okay to bully others and it’s an effective way to win money. Bully people to do what you want and when they start to question you just lie like there’s no tomorrow and you’ll succeed in life. It’s absolutely disgusting.

      • Vanessa payed more than the game. She played us. Her constant lying in the DR and lack of respect for us killed it for me. I would never vote for her if I was on the jury.

      • Derrick was easily the most honest person in the DR last year. He constantly let us into what he was thinking. he also cam talked so the feeders knew his strategy. He was probably the best ever at this.

      • That can be a way to look at it… but I think there were very notable instances where his DRs clearly contradicted with his gameplay and I think a lot of people remember that. For example, the week Donny was evicted is the best example I can think of right now…

      • Absolutely correct. She swore her word was good to every HGs (including all the ones she wound up backstabbing) and then sat in the DR and tried to convince us she’d never lie and that her integrity was strong and she was a straight-shooter. And when she did that, many of us watching outside the BB house were insulted.

  3. Now that Johnny Mac is gone, my interest is kind of gone too. I think it’s a given Vanessa will win, unless there is some major upset.

  4. What is this not owning up to the game that everyone seems to be speaking of? Even if she doesn’t own up to her game, are there rules that state that you have to own up to every single move you make in the house? Vanessa’s not the only one that doesn’t ‘own up to’ her game, though. Why is she being singled out?

    I think Vanessa played an extremely effective game, considering it got her to the end. People always want to undermine her game-play saying that the others didn’t ‘play’ the game. But what exactly is ‘playing’ the game? In the end, all the people who have ever won Big Brother have had different games. No way is the best way. You can’t compare these winners to each other because they are all different, there were different dynamics in the house based upon the ‘type’ of cast in the house.
    Who is to say that Vanessa wouldn’t have fared well in previous seasons?
    Who is to say that Derek would’ve fared well in this season?
    Each group is different.

    I don’t think Jordan from season 11 necessarily ‘played’ the game from my point of view. But she ended up winning. If you asked me, Natalie deserved the win more, even though I couldn’t stand her.
    It’s kind of like Rachel from season 13 (and 12). She wasn’t the most ‘likable’ but, in the end, they all gave her the win because she deserved it the most. (To me, Vanessa is extremely likable. There were tons of moments on the live feeds that showed that she has the most amazing personality; of course it was when she wasn’t talking game.)

    As least Vanessa has done more stuff in this game than the first 5 evicted house-guests COMBINED!
    Maybe she did play too hard at times, but she’s still in the house, so obviously playing too hard is not affecting her chances of winning.
    And Audrey played too hard as well…but she’s gone…Vanessa isn’t.
    Vanessa is extremely persuasive and influential. Her poker-playing skills and the fact that she’s a game theorist helped her a lot in this game. She deserves more credit instead of all this undermining business.
    She has never ‘truly’ gotten nominated. (She was back-doored once. Then Steve nominated her last week, but she won the Veto the next day.)
    She has never gotten a single vote to evict when she was on the block.

    She is indeed a competition beast, that much is for sure.
    This season is Vanessa’s to lose. If she doesn’t win, after all she’s done in the game…

    • Jasmine. Vanessa played the best of anyone remaining. We know you like Vanessa you have said it 1 million times. You know we hate Vanessa we have said it a million times. You don’t need to own your game to players in the game obviously, but you should in the DR so the fans how what you are thinking. Every other player in the house let viewers in on their strategy and were honest in the DR. She is singled out as she is the one who was not.

      • There is no rule that states you have to own your game in the DR. I will admit, it does help. But maybe Vanessa truly believed some of the things she was saying. But really, if she hasn’t owned up to some things, that doesn’t mean that she doesn’t deserve to win.
        Think about it? Who has had the most influence and power of this season?
        And can somebody give me an example of what she hasn’t owned up to in the DR instead of just saying all the time “she doesn’t own up to her game. she doesn’t own up to her game.”
        (Also, Bill, am I not allowed to say how much I like Vanessa and want her to win? I know people get tired of hearing it but that’s their problem, not mine.)

      • She deserves to win. 100%. She played better than anyone this season and it is not close. It is also not a rule that she has to own her game in the DR. However, she should as it is a big benefit to the viewers. It is far more interesting to watch when you know a house guests strategy and why they did certain things. The reason she is singled out is first because people hate her personality for many reasons. Some I agree with some I don’t. She is also the only one that was not honest in the DR. She may have believed what she was saying, but it was still untrue and is not helpful to viewers. It is not required, but she is going to lose fans for doing it. No matter if she was interesting or helpful to viewers she played the best this season and deserves to win.

      • For what she hasn’t owned up to is pretty much everything. She still considers herself completely trustworthy, honest, loyal in the DR. She should do that in the house, but when she is in the DR say something like, “I can’t believe they believe me” “How are they not voting me out” “How can I get away with this” anything that lets us in a little. Also explain why she did thing “I did this because of this”.

      • Vanessa KNOWS that she is not trustworthy, honest, or loyal. Obviously, to break so many deals in the game, you’d have to be an idiot to not know that you’re not exactly as loyal as you’ve stated you were.
        But again, those are only words. And evidence can show that people say things they don’t mean all the time to get ahead in the game. They also say things they don’t mean just to appease other people.

      • Yes. She doesn’t show us any respect. That is the only reason that I need not to like her. She is not playing in the true spirit of the game. I could care if she plays ruthless or bathes in their blood or even drinks it. I could care less. But she had better respect US. And clearly, she doesn’t. Therefore, I cannot respect her.

      • The may not be a rule but there is a tradition of being honest in the DR to keep the spirit of the game alive and to show respect. Best DR talks about true strategy is the whole rason FOR the game. Honest DR talks keep it a GAME. There is no reason to play the DR the same way you are playing the house. None. This sort of behaviour can only happen if you believe your own bullshit or are truly that deranged, and thus cannot break character long enough to ell the viewers what is truly going on.

      • And that is one of the points that I brought up. Maybe Vanessa truly did believe what she was saying.
        If she makes it to the final 2 and the jurors start asking her questions, I think she will be honest.

      • What I love about you Jasmine is that I don’t have to defend Vanessa all on my own. The fact that she even needs defending based on how well she has played the game is confusing to me, but it is what it is.

      • EXACTLY. I could not agree more, Bill.

        When Vanessa especially chose to start lying in the DR, when she couldn’t even truly break character there, that was when I knew that she wasn’t playing a game in its intended spirit at all. It is either that or that she thinks that we art all fools and that we deserve to be played also, or both. Her DR bullcrap, more than anything else, is what killed my respect for her.

      • For all house guests the DR is extremely important to viewers because it is the only place they can really be themselves and let us know what they are thinking. I personally wish they had more DRs shown on the show or the feeds.

      • Agreed. In fact, why do we not get to peek on the DR sessions themselves? Would boost the integrity of the game overall. Transparency equals integrity.

    • You’re giving her way too much credit, alongside giving the nit wits there credit that is undeserved. She didn’t get this far bc she’s “so smart” or “such a mastermind”, she’s there because CBS casted her with spineless idiots who bow down to her threats. All this season accomplished was telling people it’s okay to bully others and it’s an effective way to win money. Bully people to do what you want and when they start to question you just lie like there’s no tomorrow and you’ll succeed in life. It’s absolutely disgusting.

      • They had to also cope with Van’s histrionics too, which is a tactic she used when it wasn’t necessary. So I wouldn’t necessarily say the other hgs were spineless…they were more or less cornered and put on the spot at times they shouldn’t have been, so were basically forced to find ways to cope as best they could under the situation.

      • She might have used some tactics unnecessarily. But they didn’t hurt her, did they? Can I say Final 3?
        Final 3 is a HUGE accomplishment.
        Not just for Vanessa, but for all of them.
        I wasn’t surprised that Vanessa was going to make it this far. I knew from the beginning that she was special.
        But the perceived danger that Liz has been in (being a twin, and in a showmance), I never would’ve expected Liz to get this far. I’m proud that she did, though. Liz also deserves more credit than she’s been giving. Sure, she’s not the brightest crayon in the box, but who cares? She did win competitions and she had a good social game.

      • I’ve not said she doesn’t deserve to win over the 2 competing with her. I’m just saying if she doesn’t win, it’s because the other hgs didn’t find her credible enough to deserve it. It’s really down to them to decide than us! I feel this season will have a more bitter jury than in seasons past! She needs to give a spectacular speech that includes her owning the mistakes she’s made and give credit to those that helped her get to F2, something she’s yet done! :-)

      • Well, to me, she deserves all the credit and then some. She DID get this far because she IS smart. She has had some flawed moments in the game, but they didn’t hurt her because she’s still there.
        Just think about it…she was on the block with Shelli and was a lock to go home. But something changed…Vanessa had to have done something to persuade these house-guests to keep her. NONE of them voted to evict her! That’s not just luck like many people are writing it off to be, Vanessa PERSUADED them to do that. If you’re able to persuade someone to keep you even though it’s obvious that their games might be better without you in the house, THAT is a good strategy! THAT is a good game-player. And Vanessa’s persuaded people more than enough times!

      • Hahahaha “persuaded” them. No dear she didn’t persuade anyone, the magical power of suggestion did that.

      • And that’s fine, everyone has opinions. Now who do you think Steve would take to the finale of he wins HOH?

      • Considering he’s told the cameras several times he’s eliminating Vanessa and is practicing his “Vanessa, I evict you” speech, I don’t think there’s much of a discussion to have here.

      • The last time he did this he said the week before he won HOH that he would nominate the Austwins if he were to win the next HOH. He then nominated Austin and Liz and then replaced Austin with Julia a week later.

      • Don’t get me wrong I would love to see him win HOH and drop Vanessa I just have to see it to believe it since he’s so attached to her.

      • He’s not that attached to her. I think many viewers are overstating how close Steve is to Vanessa. He’s got a brain of his own and he’s not afraid to use it. I think he’s wanted Vanessa out for a few weeks now. If the Austwins had already been broken up, he probably would have used his last HoH to target Vanessa. He knows she’s a formidable contender.

      • James persuaded people to evict Shelli because A) he knew Shelli was coming after him for evicting her boy toy and B) she took a shirt that belonged to Clay out of James’ bag because she forgot she wasn’t in junior high anymore. Van didn’t have to persuade anyone.

  5. I don’t think there is any question as to who played the best game. It’s definitely Vanessa. Now, I can’t stand her, her histrionics, or the fact that she won’t own up to her game moves, but she won comps when she needed to and manipulated others when necessary. Hopefully she’ll be forced to own up to the things she’s done when she has to answer to the jury. Even though I hate to say it, she deserves the win.

    • She also bullied others when she wasn’t even in danger (on the block or a huge target at the time). She put that big target on herself when she did that.

  6. Vanessa should win she has played the best game by far she had as much control as Derrick and as open of strategy as Dr.Will thus she played an amazing game.

      • Derrick played a better game cause he was unnomed till final 3 lol. But Vanessa has played the 2nd best female game in history.

      • And Rachel would disagree with that too! But who am I to judge when I’m sitting back watching and didn’t have to live with her? I’m just stating what others who have competed in BB and won the game have revealed in their tweets.

      • Rachel got to the end and won in her 2nd season. Vanessa is about to win and have dominated a season in one go that’s why she is better.

      • I sort of would agree with Derrick in the sense that, Vanessa’s game was flawed. What got her on everyone’s radar was the week that she won HOH and promised to backdoored Austin but didn’t. When she put up Jason, she angered several people and got her on everyone’s radar. Derrick was never exposed like the way Vanessa was. (I think he would have been exposed had Hayden came back from jury). She did however have a lot of control on the evictions. Vanessa did play a great game and deserves to win but I can see Derrick’s point.

      • She played too hard when it was unnecessary! She was already winning. If only she’d remained under the radar, she wouldn’t have needed to show her cards until it was necessary! :-) Paranoia got the best of her!

      • It just bothers me sometimes how people are saying how can they not see this or that etc??? Or they are too paranoid when we have no idea how hard it is to be in there when everyone is talking behind your back and lying etc… They are going to be paranoid.
        .

  7. It would be a travesty really, despite her crying and bully tactics, if Vanessa didn’t win. I think Dan, Derrick, Evil Dick, and Chilltown are above her in the overall standings, but she’s an all-star. Speaking of which, I hope they do an all-star (again) and/or winners only season soon.

    • It would, but she’d have nobody to blame but herself! You just don’t go pissing off the ones that helped her get there without giving the credit where credit was due. That’s what most are saying about why her game was flawed.

      • Like what Rob has been saying on RHAP… if Vanessa gets to final two I would really like for her to admit in her final speech that she was lying through her teeth the whole time and no one caught her. If she mentions the word “integrity” for even once I swear I’m gonna start a petition to ban her from All Stars

      • Dan lost to Ian because of poor jury management. It could happen to Vanessa. Both Shelli and Becky said they were rooting for JMac and Steve.

  8. Why is Matt giving Steve so little credit? Steve wasn’t good social game wise? Perhaps he was awkward but out of the three ppl I think he has the best jury management. Steve will win by a landslide next to Liz… all he has to do is win fans cut Vanessa…

    • You think so…? The only way I see him even coming close is if he wins HOH and gets rid of Van – even then I’m just not sure he has enough votes. (Honestly I think the tipping point between Liz and Steve would probably be whoever finally knocked out Van)

      I’m not so sure about that. I think Liz would have: Julia, Austin, Shelli, and maybe Vanessa.

      I’m not sure about James, Meg, JMac, Jackie, or Becky. But Jackie might not be so inclined to vote for the person that sent her home.

      Either way it DEFINITELY wouldn’t be a landslide…

      • With Steve, it all comes down to 2 things. Will he cut Vanessa? How good is his performance in front of the jury? If he kills it, he can win.

      • This is how I would break down the vote if it’s Liz vs Steve:

        Shelli and Becky have both spoken that they personally like Steve and were very close with Steve around the time of their evictions. I think Becky has even said in the house once that “we are players, the twins are merely a twist”.
        Jackie said in her exit interviews that she believed Steve was playing the best game, and there in no evidence that she will be bitter. But since u mentioned it I’ll not count this possibility out
        Vanessa, despite her emotional act, will vote for the better player, which I think is Steve.
        James and Meg might not really like Steve because of his association to Vanessa… however we don’t know if they’ll be that bitter by the time they vote.

        Which leaves us with:
        Steve: Shelli, Becky, JMac, Vanessa
        Liz: Julia, Austin
        Up in the air: Goblins

        All of the Goblins would have to vote for Liz and I don’t think any of them share a personal connection to Liz in order for them to vote for Liz over Steve. I think Steve might win by a 7-2 vote

      • In your summary it all comes down to who they like better. If they judge based on game play, it won’t be that simple.
        I’m gonna be honest, I followed this season, I read all the articles about the live feeds and I could not say what Steve’s game was. To me, it felt like he didn’t have any game. His entire game was either doing what Vanessa told him or doing the thing with the lowest risk.

      • Then again… isn’t Liz sort of the same way? Her decisions in the game were hugely based off of whatever Austin or Vanessa told her to do AND on top of that she did not have a strong social game

      • Yes Shelli LIKES Steve but I think she’s much closer to Liz on a personal level so if we are talking how much she likes a person as the determining factor I think she’d go Liz. But I don’t think Shelli will vote for who she likes more, she’ll vote for who played the best game. What I think might change Shelli’s mind is if Steve kicks out Van – she might see that as the winning move.

      • Yes Shelli LIKES Steve but I think she’s much closer to Liz on a personal level so if we are talking how much she likes a person as the determining factor I think she’d go Liz. But I don’t think Shelli will vote for who she likes more, she’ll vote for who played the best game. What I think might change Shelli’s mind is if Steve kicks out Van – she might see that as the winning move.

  9. I’m just hoping James wins America’s favorite player. I don’t want Vanessa to be richer millonaire, unless she tells all the others she is a millionaire at the finale and says she is donating her winnings to som e transgender to get surgery!

  10. The best speech Vanessa could give is tell people I openly played you all with my fake crying and constant fake paranoia. I didn’t need anyone but my self in this game because I was able to puppet everyone of you to my will. This is my you should vote for me over my puppet liz/steve!

    • It won’t happen, but that’s exactly what she should say. And she very well might say something similar, but it will happen at the after-party when she’s holding the $500k check in her hand.

    • You are assuming it was fake. I don’t think so. The way she carried on alone in the HoH room after her targets won POV was not fake. It was the real Vanessa. I am sure her supporters would prefer to believe it was fake, and I have no doubt she will claim it was after the fact, but was she faking when Becky put her on the block and she hit in the comic room sulking and crying – then counting who came in to console her and who didn’t?

      I understand its hard to root for someone like Vanessa because she is such a miserable human being. I assume that’s where her fans are hoping she was just faking her antics.

      • Andalib didn’t say Vanessa was fake all the time… but there are instances where people don’t get why Vanessa has to be so emotional so we can only assume she is getting emotional for game purposes…

      • I’m a Vanessa fan, and I couldn’t care less if it’s fake or not. All I care about is the following: is it effective? The answer is yes. it is highly effective.

      • “miserable human being”….really?….seriously….
        seems to me these Vanessa haters on here, doing EVERYTHING they can to undermine this woman’s awesome game…those are the miserable human beings. That they can’t just be happy that Vanessa outsmarted the majority of the house.

      • Jasmine, how much do you cry? Vanessa cries at the drop of a hat, all the time. Only a miserable human being cries that much.

  11. Hold on. Vanessa, Steve and Liz are all members of the same alliance. Vanessa was able to stay in the game because her alliance remained loyal to each other for the most part. Just consider that her alliance won every HoH comp except two since the first week of the game when no one knew anyone. Of the two times Vanessa’s alliance did not win the HoH, she was considered a target both times and put on the block once. Only a couple of idiots – Meg and James – and a fluke prank perpetrated by Shelli and Julia kept Vanessa in the game, otherwise she would have been evicted.

    Vanessa benefited from a large number of people who do not know how to play the game. That’s why people listened to what she said. They had no clue what to do. Take Julia for example. Is there a doubt that she picky Austin in the veto comp because she had no idea what the right thing to do was?

  12. How was Steve evicting Jackie a blunder? The Goblins were all talking about getting rid of Steve. This makes no sense. The Goblins all went down one by one and Steve is still there. I’d call that a strategic coup, the exact opposite of a blunder.

  13. People are confusing playing the best game this year with playing the best game in BB history or one of the best games in BB history. The people in the house this season made Vanessa look good but let’s be serious. More than half the people in the house had no idea how to play BB. The rest were afraid to make any moves or “get blood on their hands”. I have been watching BB for more than 10 years and I cannot recall so many HGs make so many stupid mistakes and play so stupidly. There are always a couple, of course, but this season the dumb ones were the majority of the house.

    Vanessa’s game play was overdone and at times kind of ridiculous. Her wild theories and accusations were not game play. They were symptom’s of Vanessa’s superiority complex and narcissism. She was also wrong about her theories most of the time.

    Vanessa survived to the end for two reasons. First she won comps at the end when she needed to and she deserves credit for that – although people throwing comps made it easier for her. Second, her alliance won all but 2 HoH comps after the first week.

    the fact is this year there were a lot of weak players, especially the other side of the house. JMac hid himself to the end. But Austin, Steve, Liz and Vanessa won every HOH which is why only Shelli and Clay were evicted before the rest of the house was “exterminated”.

    • “She was also wrong about her theories most of the time.”
      True, she was wrong more than a few times, but she was also right many of the times. She figured things out she shouldn’t have figured out, and that’s where you’re shortchanging her. And some of those things she figured out and the way she reacted subsequently are the reasons she’s the favorite to win.

      • Most recently, knowing John had zero intention of taking her to the final 3 despite his promises. He said afterwards in his interview with Julie he would have evicted Vanessa immediately. She is always 10 steps ahead of her competitors.

    • I only read your first paragraph but agree with what you said there. Vanessa killed her competition, but I’d like to see her playing with other people of the same caliber as her. I’m not sure her game would be as successful.

      • My guess is her strategy would be very different. If she was playing with an Evel Dick or a Derrick, the Vanessa we saw this season would not be the Vanessa we see in that theoretical season.

      • It sure would be interesting to find out. I’m not a big fan of her style of play, but it would be interesting to see her play an all-star season

      • I’m guessing she’d find a way to align with someone who’s a serious gamer. That would be my guess. Then it would be a race to see who backstabs the other one first.

    • I seriously think Steve will win if he is in F2 cuz I think he will definitely cut Vanessa and beat Liz… the biggest challenge for him is getting to F2…

      • Steve better start searching for his man parts if he’s going to do that. If he wins R3 and Vanessa wags her finger in his face and says, “don’t you dare cut me,” he won’t.

    • I am sick of people playing Big Brother for second place. That is what has been wrong with the show the last two seasons. As much as I respect Derrick as a game player and as a person, he should not have been allowed to get to F2. I get that his allies respected him but if they were playing for 1st place they would have dumped him before he dumped them.

      • But that’s my point. Steve, Austin, Liz, Julia, James, Meg are all of the same ilk. They thought Vanessa was running the house but never did anything about it. Her alliance put their own loyalty above winning the game. And their loyalty was not reciprocated by Vanessa.

      • I agree. Austin and Liz both had a chance to get Vanessa out of the house and choose not to and for their blind loyalty, Vanessa blindsided Austin the first chance she got. Dumb move and he deserved to go to jury for not getting Vanessa out before she evicted him.

      • Well, to be fair, it worked out pretty well for Liz. She just basically guaranteed herself $50k, which is probably the best she could have ever hoped for anyways.

      • It’s so funny because in her preseason interview I was like “This girl is DEFINITELY flying back to Miami WAAAY before ppl even start talking about jury…” and here she is

      • Remember the first time Liz won HoH and it was suggested to her in the HoH room that she target Vanessa. Liz got all whiny and finally said, “oh, I don’t want to target her. I’m afraid of her.” That statement, in and of itself, should have been a warning sign to Liz and whoever was in the room at the time that something in the game had already gone horribly wrong.

      • I think Steve crushes Liz too. I disagree with a whole lot of the arguments posted in this article, but we’re all speculating so who knows?

      • There’s something to be said for getting there without being part of a threesome that has protected you all game.

      • The thing is, she wasn’t protected. Nobody even tried to get her out! Everybody thought she sucked at comps and was no threat, so they kept her.
        BAM, 3 HOHs later, she’s in the F3.
        I don’t see how people can say Steve will “crush” her. I don’t see a lot of arguments in Steve’s favour,

      • I don’t agree. Of the threesome, she was the strongest. I think no one tried to get her (or Austin or Julia) out, because they were too much of a unit and hard to split.

      • That’s where I disagree. The Austwins unit would have been so easy to split by simply getting Liz out. Julia and Austin were only working together because of Liz.
        James went after Clay and Shelli, that’s basically the same as going after Austwins, the difference being that Austwins were more dangerous to take through to the final stages of the game.

      • There’s something to be said for vanilla ice cream too but im.hitting rocky road every time. Try keeping a showmance, twin sister aliance alive through to the final six, regardless of which of the 3 you want to give credit for that to. And don’t say luck. That’s the fort Knox of targets. Steve pawned and played nice super can I help you, lap dog-sheep and yes it worked. I like steve but dono if he has the votes. Austin has no one to kiss in the jury house. He’s preying on the jurors to nullify Vanessa. I promise ypu. And he’s obviously effective. Will it work in the jury house though? What are your thoughts?

      • I thought Austin’s vitriol (coupled with the CD showing his eviction) would be a giantic anti-Vanessa campaign. Instead, Shelli made the argument that they haven’t been in the BB house for a while and it LOOKS like Van is playing a good game (something along those lines). The edited portion of the show seemed to show the jurors just shutdown on whatever Austin had to say. But, hey, there’s still a lot of days lift to loll around the juror house pool, hang out, and talk. Interested to see what “anti-V damage” Austin can inflict!

      • He’s inflicting and very persuasive, logically. James, meg, lock. Jackie, lock. Austin julia lock. Becky may go for Vanessa and Shelly deffinately will. Bribed, I’m so sure in my gut….maybe. ta..ha

      • If it is Steve vs Liz, and he can make an eloquent campaign speech, I think he has it. ( But he’s got to leave Coco Bear in his luggage! :D

    • My personal opinion, I think Steve will win and I hope this does happen and if Steve wins the final HOH and evicts Vanessa in a blindside he may earn major points with the jury. Steve and Liz would be interesting to see in the final 2 because it could go either way.

      • I think if Steve wins the final HOH and evicts Vanessa he would win. I think he would definitely get Shelli, Becky, JMac and probably James, Jackie and Meg’s votes. Unfortunately I don’t think he is strong enough to evict Vanessa. He will cave as always and do what she wants.

      • I’ll go one step further and say the same for Liz. Whoever evicts Vanessa will win. I just don’t think Steve has the courage to do it, and I doubt Liz does, either.

      • So glad Steve won! All my predictions were right! Meg and James were the possible swing votes and Steve answered James question well and earned their votes during jury questions otherwise dumb Liz would have won 5-4! I had Steve 6-3 winning over fake mean lying arrogant bitch LIZ! The Austwins are some of the worst humans ever! Twins were dumb and without Vanessa’s and Austin’s guidance and Steve’s they should have been out the 1st few weeks of show! As annoying as V was the twins and Austin creeper disgusting pig were worse!

  14. As with last season, this final 3 is anti-climatic and I don’t look forward to seeing any of these final 3 HGs win. I wish we would have a season where 1 person doesn’t dominate and the final outcome is undecided until finale night. Too many sheep in the house and not enough real players. I guess this is wishful thinking on my part.

  15. Has CBS decided it will just give JMac the AFP money since no one has been able to vote in about 48 hours after voting once? I mean, if that’s what they are doing, just say so. How can a website be messed up so long during a voting contest? Shady!

    • Did you see the voting page on the night it was announced? It said voting was closed and the winner would be announced at the finale, but it had the date of the finale as being the very next day.
      It was thoroughly screwed up.

    • I contacted CBS, and they said they are working on it. But I’ve seen other people say they contacted them too and it’s still down. I agree…shady!

  16. The way i see it, Liz is guaranteed in the final two. Steve will take her cuz he knows he cant beat vanessa, and vanessa will take her because rather than losing all 3 of the austwins votes, she will lose only 2 by keeping Liz there. Also, by the way she is frantically acting towards Liz, you can tell she’ll pick her.

    • But if Liz had anysynapsing brain cells, she would take Steve … Screw the car V promised to buy Julia. (The Nolans can buy 17 Volvos with liz’s first prize!) Van messed with the Austwin plan at Bowlerina AND evicted her boyfriend. She can’t see this? Truly, I will send you (Liz) tickets to the Sigmund and Freud lion tamer show in Las Vegas if you take V to the final 2!

      • I completely agree. If she had the choice she would have to pick steve. Picking vanessa would be incredibly dumb

  17. I confess that I do not like any of these three as winners. I despise Vanessa. I never like the whiner-twins or their disgusting insanity-mate Austin. Among the socially awkward, Steve is still an odd-ball who though he knows the game has hardly played it. I guess the one I dislike the least is Steve.

  18. What is the most important aspect of the game to excel at?

    Near the bottom of the comments I asked this question and it was leading to a good discussion because there are so many ways to play the game and these 3 have all played a different way. My response to someones answer was

    “That’s fine. Like you I have seen every season besides season 1. Even
    though I was only 8 at the time. I have seen parts, but not the whole
    thing. Players all use different strategies and each one is different.
    Even returning players strategies can be vastly different from their
    previous strategy. However no matter the season making a connection
    with the other house guests seems to be the most important to me. By
    connecting with them it allows them to trust you and look for your input
    on what to do. The other stuff is important. Watching and listening
    is extremely important, but I think that relates to connecting. Timing
    is a huge part of the game and we have seen the mistakes this season.
    Winning comps I don’t put too much importance into. They can help or
    hurt depending on your overall strategy. But making a connection is the
    most important. That is why every season part 3 of the final HOH is
    finish this statement. How well do you know your house guests. Because
    your relationship with the other house guests is ultimately what will
    win you or lose you the game.”

    I would be interested to see what others think because there are so many possible answers.

    • Connecting through sincerity and compassion would be my approach. Humor is critical also. Listening makes people feel needed, important, wanted and trusting
      I’d stick with that lineup rt there.

    • I’m going to look no further back than the last HG I liked and was happy to see win, Derrick. He played from his perspective as a police officer (undercover, no less), so he knew how to play his cards close to his vest, and he knew how to keep his mouth shut. No running all over to everybody else playing the “he said-she said” game and then intimidating everyone else into not comparing notes. The other thing about Derrick, was his *positive* response to everybody who came to him for advice.
      When I compare him to Vanessa, her immediate response to everyone who comes to her for advice is negative: “Not a good idea, and here’s why …”, leaving the other HG to wonder “why is my thinking so flawed? What can’t I ever get any idea/thought/plan right?” So I’m going to go with the most important relationship with the HGs has to be *positive*, not negative and intimidating. That’s trust with admiration, not trust (fingers crossed behind your back) based on fear. And that, I think, is the main difference between Derrick and Vanessa: a parent who rules by positive feedback vs. a parent who rules through fear.

    • For me the ”best” way to play the game is to simply know how to adapt to your surroundings (and let’s face it, some luck is needed also)… Each season’s winner stands apart simply because they knew how to coerce or manipulate that specific group of people better than anyone else.

    • Jas: I admire your courage and tenacity; you have always been a V backer and have never apologized! We can agree to disagree, but man-o-man, if I ever needed a devoted, devout, campaign manager for anything and who believed in my cause, I’d hire you. I know most of us are anti-V (sorry, me too) but there HAS to be the other side of the coin to keep it interesting. You’ve kept it interesting and thoughtful. So maybe next Thursday morning you’ll be driving to work, tapping the steering wheel with your fingers, havin’ a big smile on your face, saying to yourself’: Oh yeah, oh yeah V’s my winning gal! Regards. :)

  19. I agree w the post(?). lol, I’m so nontech I have no idea what these are called. Vanessa played the best game of the three. didn’t like her game and I’d rather a millionaire not win. im holding to the last hope that she does not win final HOH and gets evicted. better late than never.

  20. I’d say Steve threw it. Not only did he admit to it and cry about it forever, but also in the video it seemed obvious he threw it. C’mon Steve. i’ve seen the same act in other competitions. By now you should be able to tell when he’s throwing. Also- I will add- that he might have been throwing it to whoever was left, not just Vanessa, hoping for John to win. I think it comes down to him being a chicken, and wanting someone else to have to make that choice, because he was already safe.

  21. “I believe Liz made it to the end because she aligned with the right people and she got lucky that more people didn’t see her and her twin sister as a threat. These kinds of things tend to happen when recruits outnumber fans of the show.”

    She aligned with people like Austin, Steve, Shelli, and Vanessa who knew the show very well.
    And no one deserves to win more than the other, the only person who deserves to win is the individual who makes it to the end and gets the majority of jury votes.

  22. Very disappointed that as we wind down to the most important part of BB17 — the finale, I have no strong preference for any of the F3. Cannot watch the live feeds, too boring. Don’t want to listen to any of them any longer. Just sad to me, because I have been a fan for so long and I really have lost interest.

  23. Not sure how far Liz would have gone if she didn’t have Julia. That threesome allowed her to go this far. I will give her credit for her wins.

    • Agree. And don’t forget Austin. It was him and his relationship with Vanessa that was crucial to keeping the Austwinis in the game for so long.

  24. Still not able to vote for AFP. I have tried everyday since I voted on Tuesday. You can vote up to 20X a day, right?

      • Funny I have never had any problem voting since Day 1 and you know who’s getting my votes.
        All the people that say they have problem voting, are they voting for the same person? I am quite curious :)

  25. When someone tries to make you feel lesser than equal, don’t argue. Your equality is not up for debate, it is an implicit truth~

  26. Vanessa was BB this season period,she dominated all aspects of the game hands down,opposite of Derrick game wise but just as effective and if she makes the final two she wins.

  27. “Except for the one during the final veto competition that could cost him the game in the end.”

    Um… yeah, Steve didn’t throw that last Veto; he very obviously tried his hardest and lost outright.

    My own opinion, at this point, Liz is the only one I do not want to see win. And it’s not just that she’s annoying or a spiteful person, but let’s face it – she’s a stereotypical blonde. She may have an impressive streak in comp wins, but how many times did she and her twin have both the HGs and us shaking our heads in confusion because of some stupid comment or another. And, let’s not forget, she said a lot of hideous stuff about her fellow HGs during the game that, unlike Julia, she never apologized for.

    I want Steve to win. I’d be okay if Vanessa did. But I do not want Liz anywhere near F2! She doesn’t deserve it at all.

  28. Whoever wrote this should have their head examined if they think Liz deserves to win, and if it is someone who created Big Brother Network they are the worst representative of Big Brother on the internet and should be ashamed. Vanessa DID NOT cry her way to the end, she had the best strategy, most comp wins, and manipulated her way to the end. Not giving her credit shows the authors lack of knowledge of the game and should NEVER EVER represent the show in any way. This will probably get deleted because the TRUTH really does hurt and bitter people act ridiculously.

    • Funny because when I was little I had a doll called Chatty Cathy. And my brothers used to tease me and call me that.

      • I don’t remember. I do remember they would get in trouble for picking on me though. I am middle child, only girl and apple of my Dads eye. You’re bringing me back to good memories. How I wish my Dad was still with me.

      • Glad you’re having good memories. I wish my Dad was still on this earth. I am the 2nd of 5 children and I had a special bond with my Dad ~ We spent many wonderful times together that I cherish.

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